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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 17, 2022 3:02:31 GMT
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2233580 Aberdeen, Carolina & Western F9 AB (No other reason than it looks so darn pretty. Perfect for my made up excursion train power or just to haul freight)
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OK... upon my 3rd or 4th time browsing Lionel's new catalog, if... and I say this as one heck of a huge "IF"... if I were to pre-order anything from this catalog, it might be this F9 AB configuration with the 4 passenger cars -- simply because of its ultra unique paint scheme. BTW, this is NOT a fantasy paint scheme. I'm thinking this would most certainly be quite the eye-catcher on the rails... and potentially even a visitor favorite.
I just "Googled" the AC&W... and sure enough there are a bunch of photos and videos online of this colorful excursion train. Apparently there are even some open-air cars in real-life too, but Lionel is just doing a hodgepodge mix of more traditional passenger cars (for now).
To be clear... I'd sell something I already own in order to fund this purchase. So I'd consider this funding as "funny money" of sorts, if I could be so bold as to use that term. No net new outlay of funds. That's the only way the Allegheny & Pacific Rwy's CFO would allow this kind of purchase. LOL!!! 
And of course, hopefully the big dealers will offer some serious discounts off MSRP. In recent years, Charles Ro has typically had the most aggressive prices on passenger cars.
Here ya go. It's real....
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Post by kstrains on Jan 17, 2022 5:09:19 GMT
Norfolk Southern sold this pair of F9 Units to Aberdeen Carolina & Western. They repaited the units to paint scheme above. Very different from the NS paint scheme. Some like it where as others don't but I think it grows on you!
I wonder if MTH will ever do this paint scheme but I don't recall if they sold their tooling to Atalas for these units.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 17, 2022 6:11:11 GMT
…. I wonder if MTH will ever do this paint scheme but I don't recall if they sold their tooling to Atalas for these units.
So I suppose it’s possible that either MTH could offer this paint scheme as a regular production run… or an enterprising dealer could offer the AC&W units from MTH as a special-run for roughly $750… which is a good $200+ less than some of the Lionel dealer pre-order “early buy” prices for the F9AB (Power/SuperBass) configuration.
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Post by kstrains on Jan 17, 2022 15:13:14 GMT
The other question ....will Lionel have enough orders to put these into production. There is a lot in this catalog especially with the VL Class A engine and high price tag on these which may have some pass over these.
My other question does the Super Bass Sound in the Lionel B unit make these engines more desirable than the MTH F units? I have seen some other dealers offering custom MTH F3 units recently, so I have been curious about the sound with Lionel F units.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 17, 2022 17:24:53 GMT
The other question ....will Lionel have enough orders to put these into production. There is a lot in this catalog especially with the VL Class A engine and high price tag on these which may have some pass over these. My other question does the Super Bass Sound in the Lionel B unit make these engines more desirable than the MTH F units? I have seen some other dealers offering custom MTH F3 units recently, so I have been curious about the sound with Lionel F units. I could be wrong on this... but I think Lionel will have plenty of buyers across all its F7/F9 offerings to get these made. That's the beauty of Lionel offering so many roadnames of a given model. We posed this question for last year's Big Book catalog, and I don't recall ANYTHING of significance getting cancelled. So enough peeps continue to buy. I just suspect there are no longer LOTS of enthusiasts placing multi-page pre-orders anymore. Those days are gone for many of us.
As for sounds, Legacy Railsounds is still the best game in town IMHO. And SuperBass B-units add a noticeable presence to the Railsounds. But MTH PS3 has improved dramatically in recent years. I much prefer MTH's engineer dialogs over the corny sounding generic Crewtalk/Towercom dialogs. They get old pretty fast when multiple engines have similar dialog sequences with no roadname-specific chatter (aside from Vision Line offerings).
Now whether a $200-$300 difference is enough to justify the added depth of sound in a SuperBass loco unit? That's up to the eye of the beholder. 
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 17, 2022 18:00:57 GMT
.... There is a lot in this catalog especially with the VL Class A engine and high price tag on these which may have some pass over these. .... Just a couple more thoughts on the catalog's MSRP pricing... As with other years, dealer prices will be the ultimate determining factor. And that landscape is shaping up on par with 2021 from what I can see. Using your example of the VL Class A, it carries a $2,100 MSRP. And I've seen actual pre-order prices in a wide range from $1,680 to $1,900. It's a big range, but it's still less than the selling prices of last year's 2-10-10-2's that are just now hitting dealer shelves.
So for somebody who REALLY wants a N&W Class A, I don't see this price-point as being that big of a barrier. As expensive as $1,700 is to drop on a locomotive, it's not as obscene (IMHO) as the prices peeps might be paying for former MTH-based products now sold under the Lionel brand... where nothing has changed except for the color of the box.
And one last comment about shopping for pre-order prices in general. DON'T FORGET TO FACTOR IN YOUR DEALER'S SHIPPING POLICIES which might not be as obvious when simply comparing early-buy product prices. For example, let's say you pre-order a bunch of goodies that total $2,500. You can't control how many shipments that entails, because stuff will arrive at various times throughout the year. So that's one of the reasons why I've given Charles Ro Supply so much pre-order business (when I was pre-ordering lots of stuff). Bottom line... they clearly spell out their shipping policy. And I've yet to see ANY other dealer do that as well. Additional shipments throughout the year in the same order often ship for as little as $9 or $10. And if those goodies are big-ticket locomotives and passenger sets, you can't beat a shipping charge of $9 for FedEx Ground or UPS shipping. Most dealers will charge $25-$40 EASY for the larger/heavier items. Just something to keep in mind when comparing pricelists.
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Post by david1 on Jan 17, 2022 18:06:13 GMT
Berwyn toys just announced a Mth premiere Burlington F unit in the green scheme for $479 powered unit and $199 for a the B unit.
Dave
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Post by fabforrest on Jan 17, 2022 18:14:18 GMT
“Now whether a $200-$300 difference is enough to justify the added depth of sound in a SuperBass loco unit? That's up to the eye of the beholder.” perhaps, EAR of the beholder? |
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Post by ptc on Jan 17, 2022 21:28:32 GMT
David, when I went through the catalog this engine set really stood out. I like it, a lot, but just doesn't fit for us.
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Post by david1 on Jan 17, 2022 23:53:30 GMT
The big question is will Lionel get the colors correct?
Dave
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Post by JDaddy on Jan 18, 2022 0:19:45 GMT
The big question is will Lionel get the colors correct? Dave Sure, a normal coat of Tuscan Red ought to do it!
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Post by david1 on Jan 18, 2022 0:46:50 GMT
The big question is will Lionel get the colors correct? Dave Sure, a normal coat of Tuscan Red ought to do it! Thanks for the vote of confidence!!!!! Not!!
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Post by JDaddy on Jan 18, 2022 1:02:16 GMT
Did you see the latest Lionel Tuscan Red PA's ? Nice shade of Pink.
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Post by david1 on Jan 18, 2022 2:10:41 GMT
Yes I did and the Tuscan red on the S1 so if they get the colors right on the AC&W I'll be shocked. Not a item I would pre-order, I would have see it first.
Dave
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 18, 2022 3:36:16 GMT
Ahh… now there you guys go confusing overseas manufacturing reality with Lionel’s catalog psychology that sells buyers on the grandiose feeling of how great it’s gonna be. 🙄
Seriously though, your points are well-taken… which is why my potential pre-order will be contingent upon Lionel delivering what they say they’re gonna deliver. After all, there are plenty of prototype photos that reflect Lionel’s catalog illustration being close to reality. Now the factory needs to step up.
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