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Post by healey36 on Oct 29, 2024 14:42:17 GMT
I'm sorry but I cannot tell the difference in color between the actual model at Mr. Muffin's and the "what it should look like" HO model further down. I was thinking that as well.
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 16:38:29 GMT
I'm sorry but I cannot tell the difference in color between the actual model at Mr. Muffin's and the "what it should look like" HO model further down. The next obvious question is "how do you know the HO model is correct?" And from there I would ask: "What reference do we have so that we know for sure what the correct color looked like? Well, no one knows what green the B&A used. There are no color photos anywhere. With that said, I prefer my engines not to glow in the dark.
I will say this, this is the last Lionel engine I pre-order. Ever since the mogul debacle almost ten years ago, I've been screwed on everyone in one way or another. No more.
But by your own admission, neither you or anyone else can say what the correct color is. So why is this a problem? In practice, none of the B&As locomotives green would be clean. Its a nice looking locomotive and big kudos to Mr. Muffin for running this custom run.
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 16:40:40 GMT
They missed the green color by about 2 or 3 trillion miles. How? Based on what? And what color green? The green right out of the paint shop or the green after a few road miles? Which green on which locomotive? There were likely variations locomotive to locomotive?
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Post by harmonyards on Oct 29, 2024 16:44:09 GMT
Well, no one knows what green the B&A used. There are no color photos anywhere. With that said, I prefer my engines not to glow in the dark.
I will say this, this is the last Lionel engine I pre-order. Ever since the mogul debacle almost ten years ago, I've been screwed on everyone in one way or another. No more.
But by your own admission, neither you or anyone else can say what the correct color is. So why is this a problem? In practice, none of the B&As locomotives green would be clean. It’s a nice looking locomotive and big kudos to Mr. Muffin for running this custom run. If you can’t see the difference between the Division Point HO model posted, and Mr.Muffins custom model, then there’s seriously something wrong with your eyes!!…..perhaps it’s either time for an optometrist visit, or at least put down your Lionel rose colored can do no wrong glasses so you can see better…….blind people can see the difference!!….yikes!!….
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 16:46:11 GMT
I'm sorry but I cannot tell the difference in color between the actual model at Mr. Muffin's and the "what it should look like" HO model further down. The next obvious question is "how do you know the HO model is correct?" And from there I would ask: "What reference do we have so that we know for sure what the correct color looked like? Of course, there is the point that the colors in photos can be effected by the light source in which they were taken. Do we know that the photo of the locomotive at Mr. Muffin's reflects what a person would see at Mr. Muffins? Here's an other logical point: Given that a century ago, railroads did not have high tech, computerized paint mixing and paint application. This would have resulted in subtle variations in color shades across the locomotive fleet. On top of that, paint would fade, get dirty and the actual locomotives would not look like the original color and as well as not even look like each other. My point is, there are to many variables and questions here before we jump into yet another "Lionel screwed up the paint again." You guys waited long enough for this locomotive, why can't you all simply have fun running it on your layout? Because some of us pay for, and want some accuracy given the price point, and how your buddies at Lionel praise themselves on research. We think we’re getting something at least reasonably close……..there’s a segment of this hobby that isn’t looking just to “run” it on the layout and be happy. It’s called modeling. The first word in Model Railroading….to “model”. Some of us aren’t just here to play and take whatever Lionel decides to attempt to cram down our throats, and drain our wallets……Someone like myself, with accurate scenery, accurate rolling stock, & details out the whazzzoo, isn’t going to be satisfied with an engine that they put the lime in the coconut. They screwed the pooch, yet again,….. But you don't know what the actual shade of green is, and yet, you are raking Lionel over the coals for being "wrong" when you don't even have any research, or knowledge what "right" looks like? You don't know. That is so wrong, so unproductive and so unfair to Lionel, Mr. Muffins and to your fellow hobbyists. Do you even have the locomotive yet?
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Post by superwarp1 on Oct 29, 2024 16:47:23 GMT
Well, no one knows what green the B&A used. There are no color photos anywhere. With that said, I prefer my engines not to glow in the dark.
I will say this, this is the last Lionel engine I pre-order. Ever since the mogul debacle almost ten years ago, I've been screwed on everyone in one way or another. No more.
But by your own admission, neither you or anyone else can say what the correct color is. So why is this a problem? In practice, none of the B&As locomotives green would be clean. Its a nice looking locomotive and big kudos to Mr. Muffin for running this custom run. I'll bet your salary no engine was ever painted like that. 
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 16:50:05 GMT
But by your own admission, neither you or anyone else can say what the correct color is. So why is this a problem? In practice, none of the B&As locomotives green would be clean. It’s a nice looking locomotive and big kudos to Mr. Muffin for running this custom run. If you can’t see the difference between the Division Point HO model posted, and Mr.Muffins custom model, then there’s seriously something wrong with your eyes!!…..perhaps it’s either time for an optometrist visit, or at least put down your Lionel rose colored can do no wrong glasses so you can see better…….blind people can see the difference!!….yikes!!…. A lot people can't see the difference. Besides, you can't compare two photos that were taken under different resolutions, different lighting and different cameras.
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Post by harmonyards on Oct 29, 2024 16:53:27 GMT
They missed the green color by about 2 or 3 trillion miles. How? Based on what? And what color green? The green right out of the paint shop or the green after a few road miles? Which green on which locomotive? There were likely variations locomotive to locomotive? If you’re not interested in the history of the B&A, accounts made by old B&A employees, & the struggles made by some model makers for modeling accuracy, then why even bother typing?……if you’re happy with baby puke green, then so be it, and go run yours past your #45 Gateman, and have a ball,……the discussion we’re having has to do with modeling accuracy,…..The color should be close to a color called Brewster Green, ….that’s what ex-employees, said it looked close to, ….
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Post by harmonyards on Oct 29, 2024 16:54:36 GMT
If you can’t see the difference between the Division Point HO model posted, and Mr.Muffins custom model, then there’s seriously something wrong with your eyes!!…..perhaps it’s either time for an optometrist visit, or at least put down your Lionel rose colored can do no wrong glasses so you can see better…….blind people can see the difference!!….yikes!!…. A lot people can't see the difference. Besides, you can't compare two photos that were taken under different resolutions, different lighting and different cameras. That’s a cop out, ….stop drinking the Lionel Kool-Aid man…..
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 16:55:21 GMT
But by your own admission, neither you or anyone else can say what the correct color is. So why is this a problem? In practice, none of the B&As locomotives green would be clean. Its a nice looking locomotive and big kudos to Mr. Muffin for running this custom run. I'll bet your salary no engine was ever painted like that. When you figure that out for sure, you let me know. But I would say, that the shade of green on the locomotive photo taken at Mr. Muffins looks very close to the concept illustrations shown on Mr Muffin's website when the pre-orders were taken. But what I really don't understand is, is pouring on the hate for a locomotive that you don't even have in your hands yet. The sad thing is, you might have even liked it it after all once it does get to your house if you just waited.
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 16:57:52 GMT
How? Based on what? And what color green? The green right out of the paint shop or the green after a few road miles? Which green on which locomotive? There were likely variations locomotive to locomotive? If you’re not interested in the history of the B&A, accounts made by old B&A employees, & the struggles made by some model makers for modeling accuracy, then why even bother typing?……if you’re happy with baby puke green, then so be it, and go run yours past your #45 Gateman, and have a ball,……the discussion we’re having has to do with modeling accuracy,…..The color should be close to a color called Brewster Green, ….that’s what ex-employees, said it looked close to, …. Sure I am interested, but you don't know what they looked like. You haven't even seen the Lionel locomotive in person. You have no clue, except that this is just another opportunity to flail at Lionel.
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Post by madockawando on Oct 29, 2024 17:02:50 GMT
A lot people can't see the difference. Besides, you can't compare two photos that were taken under different resolutions, different lighting and different cameras. That’s a cop out, ….stop drinking the Lionel Kool-Aid man….. Its not a cop out, its called science. Colors will look different in photos based on lighting, the material the color is resting on and camera resolution. Here are more facts: - You have never seen a real B&A steam locomotive - You have not seen a Lionel B&A Berk - You have no knowledge by which to form a judgement - You didn't order one of these locomotives, so you really don't have any grounds to complain
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Post by harmonyards on Oct 29, 2024 17:05:42 GMT
That’s a cop out, ….stop drinking the Lionel Kool-Aid man….. Its not a cop out, its called science. Colors will look different in photos based on lighting, the material the color is resting on and camera resolution. Here are more facts: - You have never seen a real B&A steam locomotive - You have not seen a Lionel B&A Berk - You have no knowledge by which to form a judgement - You didn't order one of these locomotives, so you really don't have any grounds to complain I’m the one that’s going to be fixing them buddy, …..so yeah, I got plenty of grounds to complain & discuss,…..question??…..does Lionel give you a royalty to be their major cheerleader?…..if not, they dang sure should!….
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 29, 2024 17:20:31 GMT
Wow is this thread reminiscent of those passions associated with the 20th Century paint scheme debate what bout a year ago!
In the interests of tamping down the rhetoric may I suggest that we hit the pause button until a few of these engines are in the hands of their owners and get some first hand impressions.
Just recently I purchased two milk cars same road name different road numbers. Based upon the photos from the sale site and from Lionel's on line catalog I was certain that the cars were different colors. They were exactly the same color wise. I only mention this since light intensity, color balance, lumens and angle can do crazy things with color shifts not only in person but especially in photos/videos.
Based upon the photos in this thread, the green color of the engine is striking and attractive purely on visuals. But prototypical I cannot say but doubt it.
Please don't anybody take this the wrong way, but if I owned this engine not knowing about the paint concern and the green is actually as pictured, I would have rocky mountaineer go back to his nameplate vendor and have some magnetic Area 51 plates made up to put on the tender and have a ball around Halloween then back to the B&A for the rest of the year.
It will be interesting if Mr. Muffin will have some thoughts on the subject on this Friday's live feed from his Nerd Center.
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Post by healey36 on Oct 29, 2024 17:55:59 GMT
I'm not seeing much difference in these colors, maybe a slight yellow-caste in the Lionel shade...:   ...but not much. Is this a fantasy scheme, or did they actually paint at least one green. |
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