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Post by madockawando on Jul 18, 2024 12:46:14 GMT
I would love to see the size of the set box for the N&W King Coal set. It has a huge Legacy Y6B steam, twelve coal cars and a caboose. For what you are getting its not a bad price at $2999 Is the cost of a visit to the chiropractor included given the weight and size of the box?! LoL... Will it fit under the Christmas tree? Another interesting set is the New Haven Minuteman Freight set. It is a scale Legacy set with a nice set of New England themed rolling stock and a New Haven Legacy USRA Mountain steam locomotive. The set is $1999. I would be interested except I don't' think the locomotive will clear the O48 curves on my layout... or will it? The catalog says O-54 but Lionel doesn't offer O-54 track. Some MTH premier steam engines of a comparable size are listed for O-42. I would hate to buy it and take a chance that it fits only to find it won't!
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Post by JDaddy on Jul 18, 2024 13:16:27 GMT
Whoa is this a catalog price error? 499 for a vision line b60 baggage car? Yet the REA is 299? These are $75.00 cars at best. I actually paid $55.00 for the mail car on sale at a dealer. Either the OEM’s are hoping folks are dumb enough to pay the asking price or money is no object to the rich. $99.00 sound box cars are up over $175.00 these days. Why? O scale, is no longer justifiable. Something is really out of wack in this hobby. Lots of new junk dumped on the internet that dealers can’t sell. I overheard Ryan and Dave say there were some errors on pricing in the catalog. Lets hope this was one of those.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 18, 2024 13:42:28 GMT
These are $75.00 cars at best. I actually paid $55.00 for the mail car on sale at a dealer. Either the OEM’s are hoping folks are dumb enough to pay the asking price or money is no object to the rich. $99.00 sound box cars are up over $175.00 these days. Why? O scale, is no longer justifiable. Something is really out of wack in this hobby. Lots of new junk dumped on the internet that dealers can’t sell. I overheard Ryan and Dave say there were some errors on pricing in the catalog. Lets hope this was one of those. I suspect that there are some typos in tis catalog and not just pricing. No excuse for those for Lionel. However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out!
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Post by runamuckchuck on Jul 18, 2024 14:14:32 GMT
I overheard Ryan and Dave say there were some errors on pricing in the catalog. Lets hope this was one of those. I suspect that there are some typos in tis catalog and not just pricing. No excuse for those for Lionel. However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out! There is a lot of nostalgia associated with the model train hobby and one aspect of it is the pricing of yesteryear. Of course things are more expensive now, but accounting for inflation and where you were in the prime of your earning years then versus a fixed income now (or soon) compounded by the vagaries of aging is enough to discourage anybody with the cost of model trains today. Realism in appearance and function come at a price, and that price keeps going up. IMO the complaints, concerns, frustration about the cost of model trains is not so much in the realm of value to cost (but there is that for sure), but the cost in the absolute and within the context of the potential buyer's financial situation. For example the GG-1 Centennial version with the complete consist may vey well be worth the cost, however it is still a lot of money to many if not most folks. It is a wicked paradox that many of us cannot afford, or choose not to buy all the trains we desire and enjoy so much.
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Post by JDaddy on Jul 18, 2024 14:14:35 GMT
I overheard Ryan and Dave say there were some errors on pricing in the catalog. Lets hope this was one of those. I suspect that there are some typos in tis catalog and not just pricing. No excuse for those for Lionel. However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out! Communication is KEY. I notice in the catalog for the NKP set it calls out Aluminum Bodies. However, in the YouTube Pod cast Ryan and Dave stated they are abs plastic with aluminum finish. That changes everything for me. I am out. At 250 dollars a car, that is insane. Unfortunately if someone reads the catalog and does not listen to the Pod cast, they are going to be pretty upset when they receive this set. I would pay the extra coin if I am getting value for the dollar.
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Post by JDaddy on Jul 18, 2024 14:25:05 GMT
I suspect that there are some typos in tis catalog and not just pricing. No excuse for those for Lionel. However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out! There is a lot of nostalgia associated with the model train hobby and one aspect of it is the pricing of yesteryear. Of course things are more expensive now, but accounting for inflation and where you were in the prime of your earning years then versus a fixed income now (or soon) compounded by the vagaries of aging is enough to discourage anybody with the cost of model trains today. Realism in appearance and function come at a price, and that price keeps going up. IMO the complaints, concerns, frustration about the cost of model trains is not so much in the realm of value to cost (but there is that for sure), but the cost in the absolute and within the context of the potential buyer's financial situation. For example the GG-1 Centennial version with the complete consist may vey well be worth the cost, however it is still a lot of money to many if not most folks. It is a wicked paradox that many of us cannot afford, or choose not to buy all the trains we desire and enjoy so much. Lionel is entering a new market. They are trying to appease the scale brass crowd. The 2-3 percent of the market. I applaud them but they need to offer more affordable sets to the larger market. Allot of people are looking for the return of 18" aluminum cars at 450.00 a 4 pack. Those days are gone. I can see 750 or 800 for the 4 pack but 1200 is just not feasible for most of us and it reflects really poorly on a manufacture as a money gouge. Will I purchase a more expensive set? Maybe one, but I cannot afford multiple sets. I will not pre-order anymore due to color issues, and I have to brace myself for the quality of the product for it has lapsed.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 18, 2024 14:32:12 GMT
I suspect that there are some typos in tis catalog and not just pricing. No excuse for those for Lionel. However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out! There is a lot of nostalgia associated with the model train hobby and one aspect of it is the pricing of yesteryear. Of course things are more expensive now, but accounting for inflation and where you were in the prime of your earning years then versus a fixed income now (or soon) compounded by the vagaries of aging is enough to discourage anybody with the cost of model trains today. Realism in appearance and function come at a price, and that price keeps going up. IMO the complaints, concerns, frustration about the cost of model trains is not so much in the realm of value to cost (but there is that for sure), but the cost in the absolute and within the context of the potential buyer's financial situation. For example the GG-1 Centennial version with the complete consist may vey well be worth the cost, however it is still a lot of money to many if not most folks. It is a wicked paradox that many of us cannot afford, or choose not to buy all the trains we desire and enjoy so much. Prices are not picked out of thin air by "greedy" corporate guys in Concord NC. Supply cost, labor cost, costs associated with shipping from overseas, investments in research and development and yes, costs for a reasonable return on investment. Overall all those factors, there is the price what the market will bear. So prices are what they are and all the whining about prices is as pointless as it is amusing. Lionel has been doing this for a long time. They know what will sell and and at what price. People may gripe about prices but believe it or not, people are paying these prices and they do sell well.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Jul 18, 2024 14:34:23 GMT
Speaking of catalog typos, did anyone happen to watch the David & Ryan video of the Volume 2 catalog? I believe I distinctly heard Ryan state that in conjunction with the improvements to the GG-1 that a person could among other things use a Cab 3 remote with the Base 3 to control the engine.
Was this a misspeak on his part? I have never heard a reference to a Cab 3 remote that I can recall; quite the opposite actually.
Do in the know folks refer to phones and tablets as remotes these days?
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Post by JDaddy on Jul 18, 2024 14:47:29 GMT
Speaking of catalog typos, did anyone happen to watch the David & Ryan video of the Volume 2 catalog? I believe I distinctly heard Ryan state that in conjunction with the improvements to the GG-1 that a person could among other things use a Cab 3 remote with the Base 3 to control the engine. Was this a misspeak on his part? I have never heard a reference to a Cab 3 remote that I can recall; quite the opposite actually. Do in the know folks refer to phones and tablets as remotes these days? Aha! I am glad you caught this!!! Yes, there are plans to a remote with the cab 3 in the future. But when I cannot say. Speaking the powers that be.... remember when working with toys the technology has to be proven a few years before implemented. Gone are the suppliers that make the LCD black lettered screens. Born are the new color screens... There will be a new remote, so don't spend tons of money on a CAB 2... just a word to the wise.
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Post by JDaddy on Jul 18, 2024 14:55:09 GMT
There is a lot of nostalgia associated with the model train hobby and one aspect of it is the pricing of yesteryear. Of course things are more expensive now, but accounting for inflation and where you were in the prime of your earning years then versus a fixed income now (or soon) compounded by the vagaries of aging is enough to discourage anybody with the cost of model trains today. Realism in appearance and function come at a price, and that price keeps going up. IMO the complaints, concerns, frustration about the cost of model trains is not so much in the realm of value to cost (but there is that for sure), but the cost in the absolute and within the context of the potential buyer's financial situation. For example the GG-1 Centennial version with the complete consist may vey well be worth the cost, however it is still a lot of money to many if not most folks. It is a wicked paradox that many of us cannot afford, or choose not to buy all the trains we desire and enjoy so much. Prices are not picked out of thin air by "greedy" corporate guys in Concord NC. Supply cost, labor cost, costs associated with shipping from overseas, investments in research and development and yes, costs for a reasonable return on investment. Overall all those factors, there is the price what the market will bear. So prices are what they are and all the whining about prices is as pointless as it is amusing. Lionel has been doing this for a long time. They know what will sell and and at what price. People may gripe about prices but believe it or not, people are paying these prices and they do sell well. Very well said. Price gouging is everywhere these days. Its tough not to be gun shy from it. Producing any products must be done with a business case. tooling investment, piece cost, shipping, logistics, labour, scrap rate, timing. Now has Lionel priced themselves out of the market for most of us? Maybe for us collecting multiple sets they have? I have definitely taken the strategy to wait and see on purchasing all my catalog items, and reducing them to one or two.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Jul 18, 2024 15:03:45 GMT
There is a lot of nostalgia associated with the model train hobby and one aspect of it is the pricing of yesteryear. Of course things are more expensive now, but accounting for inflation and where you were in the prime of your earning years then versus a fixed income now (or soon) compounded by the vagaries of aging is enough to discourage anybody with the cost of model trains today. Realism in appearance and function come at a price, and that price keeps going up. IMO the complaints, concerns, frustration about the cost of model trains is not so much in the realm of value to cost (but there is that for sure), but the cost in the absolute and within the context of the potential buyer's financial situation. For example the GG-1 Centennial version with the complete consist may vey well be worth the cost, however it is still a lot of money to many if not most folks. It is a wicked paradox that many of us cannot afford, or choose not to buy all the trains we desire and enjoy so much. Prices are not picked out of thin air by "greedy" corporate guys in Concord NC. Supply cost, labor cost, costs associated with shipping from overseas, investments in research and development and yes, costs for a reasonable return on investment. Overall all those factors, there is the price what the market will bear. So prices are what they are and all the whining about prices is as pointless as it is amusing. Lionel has been doing this for a long time. They know what will sell and and at what price. People may gripe about prices but believe it or not, people are paying these prices and they do sell well. It is tough to give up on a semi annual ritual of the airing of grievances.  To coin a new phrase perhaps we should learn to grimace and bear it. On the other hand some may choose to put up or shut up and buy used, NOS or sit on the sidelines. Either way we oldsters have the burden of perspective for the way pricing was versus today. Newer hobbyists by comparison may just look at the price and go oh well. Either way I agree that prices are what they are for whatever reason and the ascending price trend seems to be here to stay at least for now.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jul 18, 2024 15:19:23 GMT
<abbr>... </abbr>However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out! I'm SO glad that we're entertaining you. But I'm equally entertained when Lionel fanboys choose to characterize price discussions as whining, hand-wringing and pearl-clutching (that's a new one for me).
Bottom line: I'll stand by everything I've ever posted about Lionel prices. When they're reasonable, I say it. And when they push the absurd, I'll say that too. Does that mean I expect Lionel to change its tune? Absolutely not. They are who they are. They're producing far too many products nowadays to get everything right. And now that's even bleeding into the catalog with type-o's and pricing errors. They've farmed out toy train production... so I guess it's only a matter of time that they'll farm out the catalog as well. And pretty soon, they'll only need to ship pallets of trains out to their distributors and large dealers. 
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Post by runamuckchuck on Jul 18, 2024 15:23:14 GMT
Back to the subject of typos, in this day and age typos are readily avoidable so shame on the lack of QC.
However while regrettable my complaint with Lionel about typos is when they weaponize typos to their advantage as is the case with our old friend Yuletide/Yeuletide.
Yuletide was spelled correctly in the online catalog, while misspelled in the print catalog. According to several dealers Lionel supposedly stated that they were not going to make any accommodations because the name was produced as it was shown in the print catalog.
If Lionel did this once will they do it again? Past history shows that Lionel uses the print catalog as the governing document. Will verbal statements by Lionel employees about general typos even if memorialized on YouTube override the printed catalog?
I am not accusing Lionel of anything just asking since past is precedent.
As one who considers themselves ill served by the Yuletide misspell, I would be very wary of any typos as respects anything material in the product(s) you are considering w/o specific written or documented clarification from Lionel.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 18, 2024 15:43:12 GMT
<abbr>... </abbr>However, people sure LOVE pearl clutching, hand wringing, sky screaming about prices twice a year when the catalog comes out! I'm SO glad that we're entertaining you. But I'm equally entertained when Lionel fanboys choose to characterize price discussions as whining, hand-wringing and pearl-clutching (that's a new one for me).
Bottom line: I'll stand by everything I've ever posted about Lionel prices. When they're reasonable, I say it. And when they push the absurd, I'll say that too. Does that mean I expect Lionel to change its tune? Absolutely not. They are who they are. They're producing far too many products nowadays to get everything right. And now that's even bleeding into the catalog with type-o's and pricing errors. They've farmed out toy train production... so I guess it's only a matter of time that they'll farm out the catalog as well. And pretty soon, they'll only need to ship pallets of trains out to their distributors and large dealers. Well, how else can we see it? The price complaining will have no effect on Lionel's catalog prices.... none. If you want a high end item., save your money over the next year until the item is produced OR put it on lay a way. There are several dealers who are more than happy to do so with no extra charge. So what really is the point complaining about prices? What effect are you trying to bring about by complaining? What do you hope to accomplish and is it a realistic expectation? As for it being a amusing, well the humor comes from its predictability and from the well used comedic trope of watching so much energy spent on a futile expectation of change.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jul 18, 2024 15:54:14 GMT
I'm SO glad that we're entertaining you. But I'm equally entertained when Lionel fanboys choose to characterize price discussions as whining, hand-wringing and pearl-clutching (that's a new one for me).
Bottom line: I'll stand by everything I've ever posted about Lionel prices. When they're reasonable, I say it. And when they push the absurd, I'll say that too. Does that mean I expect Lionel to change its tune? Absolutely not. They are who they are. They're producing far too many products nowadays to get everything right. And now that's even bleeding into the catalog with type-o's and pricing errors. They've farmed out toy train production... so I guess it's only a matter of time that they'll farm out the catalog as well. And pretty soon, they'll only need to ship pallets of trains out to their distributors and large dealers. Well, how else can we see it? The price complaining will have no effect on Lionel's catalog prices.... none. If you want a high end item., save your money over the next year until the item is produced OR put it on lay a way. There are several dealers who are more than happy to do so with no extra charge. So what really is the point complaining about prices? What effect are you trying to bring about by complaining? What do you hope to accomplish and is it a realistic expectation? As for it being a amusing, well the humor comes from its predictability and from the well used comedic trope of watching so much energy spent on a futile expectation of change.
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