|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 23:28:09 GMT
Agreed.
Hindsight is 20-20 isn't it.
In the meantime the lack of ownership from Lionel for their mistake is appalling. We made a spelling error which you may or may not have seen in the catalog.
However since you bought the item as we showed it in our catalog it is now your mistake not ours?
That takes crust as my grandparents used to say.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 4, 2023 23:53:01 GMT
... Wait a second, my catalog has the incorrect spelling while the online spelling is correct. Could there be two versions of the in print catalog? That would only make this fiasco even more bizarre! Whoa!!! We can't make up this kind if incompetence. We really can't.
Obviously at some point, the misspelling existed AND was corrected... since the online catalog clearly has the coach named, YULETIDE. But the factory must have grabbed an older draft of the product artwork. And being in a distant foreign country halfway around the globe, no overworked factory worker would be any the wiser to notice or question the misspelling. So much for Lionel having any English-speaking, "onsite" factory inspectors either. I suppose those days are gone. More cost-cutting. Doesn't speak too highly of Lionel's review process though... which takes us back to my very first observation that Lionel is simply cataloging FAR too many products these days. They're over-driving their headlights so to speak, and they have no time to react even when mistakes are brought to light. Very sad, indeed.
Quick... for grins, we better take screenshots of the online version of the catalog now while we still can, before Lionel uploads another version of the catalog with the misspelled coach name YUELTIDE that apparently went to the printer. Truth is relative these days, and information can be manipulated as moment-in-time pieces of bits and bytes. Very scary. There are no absolutes anymore. 
So at the end of the day... Lionel is taking a page out of the playbook written by our illustrious DC politicians in power now. "Problem? What problem? Nothing to see here. Let's move right along now, folks. WE know what's best for you."
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 5, 2023 0:32:48 GMT
I have sent an email to Lionel indicating the nature of the issues with their 'it was made per our catalog so it's right explanation'.
My situation is a bit different than yours as I already have the diesels and the 2 car add on which I received more than 30 days ago.
It should be Lionel that suffers the financial repercussions of their mistakes not our dealers.
But I agree with your assessment that there are serious institutional issues going on a Lionel that are obviously out of control.
Too bad to spend so much time on this kind of stuff for something that is supposed to be fun and relaxing.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 5, 2023 0:56:24 GMT
... My situation is a bit different than yours as I already have the diesels and the 2 car add on which I received more than 30 days ago. It should be Lionel that suffers the financial repercussions of their mistakes not our dealers. ... Understood. I'm less worried about the pushback I'll get from my dealer on the 4-pack, since I just picked that up last week. They'll wanna do a store-credit, but I'm gonna push for the refund. The 4-pack and the StationSounds diner just shipped to dealers most recently. But in this wacky world of overseas production and shipping, the 2-packs shipped over a month ago if I recall correctly. Again, I'm pushing for a complete refund. But a store credit might be an acceptable compromise for the 2-pack, since it's fairly easy to spend $300 on new trains these days. It's just a hassle though... the kind of hassle none of us needs in a hobby that should be an escape from the everyday hustle-bustle of life.
I'd be more ticked if I had also purchased the E-8's outside a return-window, because they were really intended to head up this North Pole Central passenger set. So without the passenger coaches, why have that Sleighbell Limited set of E-8's in the same paint scheme.
OTOH, I have the F-19 Christmas steamer on pre-order. Part of me wants to cancel that pre-order though, because right now I want nothing to do with Lionel as a supplier. Their ethics are disgusting, if they think they can treat customers like this. However, if the F-19 is a winner, I can certainly use an eye-catching steamer to head up an MTH Christmas passenger set -- or even a Lionel North Pole Central freight consist of boxcars, gondolas, tankers and extended vision caboose -- already on my roster. My current North Pole Central freight train is headed up by three GP35's (two powered and one dummy). But it would be nice to change that up with the F-19 Christmas steamer once in awhile. That'll have to wait until next Christmas though, since the F-19 aren't shipping anytime soon. More like 2H2024 is my guess on those.
Best of luck on your venture with Lionel and your dealer. The front-line reps are VERY polite and courteous, but I fear you're gonna be faced with nothing but arrogance and incompetence as you move further into Lionel's organization. And that tone is set all the way to the top. Very sad. I wish I didn't need to say that, but some things just have to be said... as unpleasant as that might sound.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 5, 2023 1:13:18 GMT
... My situation is a bit different than yours as I already have the diesels and the 2 car add on which I received more than 30 days ago. It should be Lionel that suffers the financial repercussions of their mistakes not our dealers. ... Understood. I'm less worried about the pushback I'll get from my dealer on the 4-pack, since I just picked that up last week. They'll wanna do a store-credit, but I'm gonna push for the refund. The 4-pack and the StationSounds diner just shipped to dealers most recently. But in this wacky world of overseas production and shipping, the 2-packs shipped over a month ago if I recall correctly. Again, I'm pushing for a complete refund. But a store credit might be an acceptable compromise for the 2-pack, since it's fairly easy to spend $300 on new trains these days. It's just a hassle though... the kind of hassle none of us needs in a hobby that should be an escape from the everyday hustle-bustle of life.
I'd be more ticked if I had also purchased the E-8's outside a return-window, because they were really intended to head up this North Pole Central passenger set. So without the passenger coaches, why have that Sleighbell Limited set of E-8's in the same paint scheme.
OTOH, I have the F-19 Christmas steamer on pre-order. Part of me wants to cancel that pre-order though, because right now I want nothing to do with Lionel as a supplier. Their ethics are disgusting, if they think they can treat customers like this. However, if the F-19 is a winner, I can certainly use an eye-catching steamer to head up an MTH Christmas passenger set -- or even a Lionel North Pole Central freight consist of boxcars, gondolas, tankers and extended vision caboose -- already on my roster. My current North Pole Central freight train is headed up by three GP35's (two powered and one dummy). But it would be nice to change that up with the F-19 Christmas steamer once in awhile. That'll have to wait until next Christmas though, since the F-19 aren't shipping anytime soon. More like 2H2024 is my guess on those.
Best of luck on your venture with Lionel and your dealer. The front-line reps are VERY polite and courteous, but I fear you're gonna be faced with nothing but arrogance and incompetence as you move further into Lionel's organization. And that tone is set all the way to the top. Very sad.
Thanks for the sympathy. I am coming to expect little or nothing from Lionel in order to avoid disappointment.
|
|
|
|
Post by atsda on Dec 5, 2023 2:12:02 GMT
Rockymountaineer, Tell us about how you really feel about Lionel. Alfred
|
|
|
|
Post by steveoncattailcreek on Dec 5, 2023 2:32:50 GMT
Rockymountaineer, Tell us about how you really feel about Lionel. Alfred Yeah, all this beating around the bush and happy-facing is getting old! 
|
|
|
|
Post by bobthetrainguy on Dec 5, 2023 2:33:49 GMT
Wait a second, my catalog has the incorrect spelling while the online spelling is correct. Could there be two versions of the in print catalog? That would only make this fiasco even more bizarre! It’s the same way for the stripes on the 1938 20th Century Limited Dreyfuss Hudson. One has thick stripes (print and PDF catalog) while the online one has thin stripes, the online catalog.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 5, 2023 15:00:48 GMT
In an act of if not supreme optimism at least hopeful hand wringing I sent off an email to Talk to Us at Lionel. In saying that if they would do nothing regarding the Yuletide car because it was produced as it appeared in the catalog, I asked which catalog, as it was correct in one and incorrect in the other.
We shall see if logic and common sense will prevail.
|
|
|
|
Post by dlagrua on Dec 5, 2023 15:50:07 GMT
If Lionel is looking to survive and prosper in the upscale market, the products have to be manufactured accordingly. While I can easily afford to buy the new equipment my money is better spent on Firearms, Classic Cars, Antiques and travel preferring to keep my layout as more of a scenic presentation of the 1940's and 1950's. While Lionel is reportedly doing well, it is questionable how long they can survive servicing the small segment of the market. The demographics of those that support the model train market are not in their favor. Lionel probably knows this and is just milking the market for all its worth while they can. They already retracted from the authorized dealer service network so whats next?
|
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 5, 2023 15:57:31 GMT
In an act of if not supreme optimism at least hopeful hand wringing I sent off an email to Talk to Us at Lionel. In saying that if they would do nothing regarding the Yuletide car because it was produced as it appeared in the catalog, I asked which catalog, as it was correct in one and incorrect in the other. We shall see if logic and common sense will prevail.
My 4-pack and 2-pack are already packed in my car... getting ready to be returned to Nicholas Smith Trains today. The 4-pack sales receipt was dated last week, and the 2-pack receipt was dated 11/6/2023. Whew!!! Just made their "no returns after 30 days" window. Hopefully they'll accommodate a complete refund as opposed to store credit. Unfortunately, the folks with whom I have the best relationship are Chris (owner) and Joey (manager). Chris no longer works the store on a day-to-day basis, and may even be retired now. Joey left the scene some time ago, and I believe Chris' daughter manages the business now. So we shall see.
I gave serious thought to purchasing a customized YULETIDE engraved plate with self-adhesive backing to place over the misspelled YUELTIDE. But then realized that's exactly what Lionel is hoping we'll do. Let them off the hook and fix THEIR mistake, so they can continue pulling more of these shenanigans. No sir. Not on my dollar for what would be an $1,800 MSRP 7-car passenger set. They get away with enough nonsense as it is from fanboys who defend anything Lionel does. Now if these passenger cars were equipped with detailed interiors on the scale of what Jack Pierce offers at York train shows, I might have considered keeping the set and buying the engraved YULETIDE plate. But these cars come with bland interiors with no passengers, which is why I typically pass on Lionel's 21" passenger cars. But I was taken in by the paint-scheme depicted in the online catalog -- only to ultimately find Lionel couldn't even produce that correctly. Shame on me. I should have known better.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 5, 2023 16:15:49 GMT
... While Lionel is reportedly doing well, it is questionable how long they can survive servicing the small segment of the market. The demographics of those that support the model train market are not in their favor. Lionel probably knows this and is just milking the market for all its worth while they can. They already retracted from the authorized dealer service network so whats next? To a large degree, I believe Lionel is leveraging the enthusiasm of the YouTube generation of hobbyists who appear to have no trouble spending big dollars on the latest high-priced products to both enjoy and keep their YouTube channels relevant and updated with new content. As I mentioned the other day, a recent YouTube video that was produced literally the same day an enthusiast brought his Strasburg #90 locomotive home saw over 8,000 views in just 3 or 4 days. I don't think ANY model train forum has that kind of clout.
I recall the days when Lionel's Mike Reagan produced simple but VERY professional videos announcing the release of new Lionel products. Now Lionel doesn't need to do that, because the younger YouTube hobbyists are doing that for them. Eric of Eric's Trains just produced a video highlighting an Eric's Trains bay-window caboose in his Appalachian & Western roadname along with "Eric's Trains" emblazoned on the side of the caboose. I couldn't help but notice that video has garnered over 13,000 views in 9 days... and Eric now has close to 70,000 subscribers. So the social media craze is a serious force with which to reckon nowadays.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 5, 2023 18:41:38 GMT
Yes, the You Tubers are very good at self promotion as the number of subscribers translates into income for the channel.
However I suspect that much of the views are merely voyeurism rather than an indication of purchases real or potential. That also goes for the products that these folks are hawking/reviewing with courtesy pricing, long and short term loans from manufacturing and from friends solely for the purpose of getting the product some screen time.
But in the end, I am certain that the issues we have experienced and heard about with various Lionel offerings will inflict themselves on the video viewer buyers to the same extent we have experienced. That will be a watershed moment when it is their turn to decide if and when enough is enough.
But the thing that will really tick me off is after this Yuletide snafu, Lionel does another run of the 4 car set or offers an add on Yuletide car (maybe a full vista dome) spelled correctly.
As of yet no reply from Lionel.
|
|
|
|
Post by david1 on Dec 5, 2023 19:45:56 GMT
I wish all you guys luck in your dealings with Lionel
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by af3020 on Dec 5, 2023 23:47:42 GMT
With all of the discussion concerning misspelling maybe it's time we considered adding this one to the distinguished list of earlier misspellings. It can take its place of honor alongside ... Ives and the famous Refrig frator door  ...and the American Flyer Flossmoor station which became a hangout for Dentists ...   |
|
