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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 2, 2023 22:47:42 GMT
The 'Spirit of Mercy' add on car made no sense to me within the context of Christmas, but I bit anyway. Now this stupidity. I have an unopened carton from Trainworld with this set of cars and I will be waiting anxiously for Lionel's response because if not for the fact that I have and ordered both companion engines, the return process would already be started for me.
Lionel needs to take a good look in the mirror and decide if they want to be a business or a joke.
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Post by josef on Dec 2, 2023 23:02:38 GMT
The BTO system of ordering took Lionels responsibility of what is delivered from them to the buyer. Some are taking them as is and others are having them repainted at their expense. Dave That is so wrong and one reason this will continue.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 2, 2023 23:11:58 GMT
In a recent video Ryan was crowing about how there would be little holdover of 2023 products into 2024. Maybe he should not have been so self satisfied if this is the kind of QC we get. And to add insult to injury reports of problems with old #90 are starting to pop up.
The one thing you can say about Lionel is that they are consistent. Just one fail after another.
When BTO turns into SOL it is time to fish or cut bait.
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Post by firewood on Dec 2, 2023 23:53:46 GMT
Bizarre, isn’t it? I can see this on a $30 plastic dollar-store battery set, but at this price? I don’t get it - I thought there was a pilot model for manufacturer’s approval, but is the catalog artwork all anyone sees before the actual item shows up?
Dave
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Post by Adam on Dec 2, 2023 23:56:22 GMT
The funny thing is that, in theory, this is the simple stuff. Spelling, we have technology for that to make it brain dead easy.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 3, 2023 4:11:21 GMT
In a recent video Ryan was crowing about how there would be little holdover of 2023 products into 2024. Maybe he should not have been so self satisfied if this is the kind of QC we get. ... I saw the video to which you're referring. And frankly I'd be embarrassed, if I were a customer-facing employee working at Lionel now. It's bad enough when these faux-pas happen. But the silence is downright deafening, when Lionel doesn't even acknowledge these problems occur. They'd have a ton more credibility if they would alert their distributors and dealers about the problem and offer a quick fix for it. If they're not gonna fix the system to avoid problems on the front end, then at least implement ways to better manage the problems on the back end.
Then again... I can just imagine that Ryan and other customer-facing Lionel employees are probably already putting finishing touches on the company's Big Book 2024 Catalog (due to be released in mid-January), where this entire scene will play out all over again next year. And God help those poor fools who wanna get back on this crazy treadmill. 
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Post by mrmeep on Dec 3, 2023 7:40:16 GMT
Lionel Corp. is being run EXACTLY like REAL railroads today!
Run by MBA's, "entrepreneurs", "investors" and "speculators".
NOT by people who are in the toy or collectible business or
even by people in the manufacturing business.
So, as a result, Lionel now no longer does warranty work, no
longer has service stations and no longer has customer service
or quality control. AND NO LONGER APPARENTLY EVEN CARES ABOUT
THEIR CUSTOMERS as evidenced by the Youtubes out there and the
reviews here and on other internet sites. (and also listen to
people talking at train shows!)
They seem to think that their "product" is "perfect" and so they
ask "perfect" prices for defective products that are defectively
handled, packed and shipped. And when they DO deem to take some-
thing back for repair/return it comes back in WORSE shape than
when it went to them!
Sad!
This is what you get with disinterest, malaise and blindly contracting
your operations overseas and paying NO attention to detail, quality,
or adherence to production/design specs.
And THIS ^^^^ is the reason that the hobby is dying! The manufacturers
are pricing everyone out of the hobby! Lionel isn't the only one either.
But they are the worst.
And this is also prevalent in other aspects of our society as well. Take
full advantage of people on a deal and then kick them to the curb.
We, the customers, need to become more reactive and send feedback to these
"investors" and "speculators" and maybe even "Bud Lite" companies like these.
THAT will teach them a lesson. There WILL be others who will take their
place and MAYBE even learn a lesson from it.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Dec 3, 2023 10:01:27 GMT
Early reports about the Lionel Strasburg 2-10-0 Decapod #90 have been scattered, some working great and others reporting problems.
Sighhhhh…. Looks like it’s another roll of the dice. I’m still waiting on my invoice and I will pay it as #90 is a locomotive I’ve desired to be made more than any other.
This offering’s performance, especially at its price point, may determine my future Lionel purchases. It’s difficult for me to say it but with past issues of their products I’ve experienced mounting, some fixed some needing a fix, is wearing me out. If I never bought another train again I have enough models that work to have fun with the hobby for a lifetime.
David I hope you’re provided a fix or resolution for your passenger cars.
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Post by trainman9 on Dec 3, 2023 13:18:31 GMT
The funny thing is that, in theory, this is the simple stuff. Spelling, we have technology for that to make it brain dead easy. Anyone read a newspaper lately. I get, on most days, the Philadelphia Enquirer delivered. I can’t tell you how many spelling errors are made. None of the writers as far as I know even proof read their article just relying on spell check. Sometimes there are a number of incorrect spellings in the same article regardless of length.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 3, 2023 14:10:48 GMT
Lionel Corp. is being run EXACTLY like REAL railroads today! Run by MBA's, "entrepreneurs", "investors" and "speculators". NOT by people who are in the toy or collectible business or even by people in the manufacturing business. So, as a result, Lionel now no longer does warranty work, no longer has service stations and no longer has customer service or quality control. AND NO LONGER APPARENTLY EVEN CARES ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS as evidenced by the Youtubes out there and the reviews here and on other internet sites. (and also listen to people talking at train shows!) They seem to think that their "product" is "perfect" and so they ask "perfect" prices for defective products that are defectively handled, packed and shipped. And when they DO deem to take some- thing back for repair/return it comes back in WORSE shape than when it went to them! Sad! This is what you get with disinterest, malaise and blindly contracting your operations overseas and paying NO attention to detail, quality, or adherence to production/design specs. And THIS ^^^^ is the reason that the hobby is dying! The manufacturers are pricing everyone out of the hobby! Lionel isn't the only one either. But they are the worst. And this is also prevalent in other aspects of our society as well. Take full advantage of people on a deal and then kick them to the curb. We, the customers, need to become more reactive and send feedback to these "investors" and "speculators" and maybe even "Bud Lite" companies like these. THAT will teach them a lesson. There WILL be others who will take their place and MAYBE even learn a lesson from it. The only feed back the accountants and investors care about is the return on investment. Unless they are using or plan to use Lionel as a tax write-off as soon as red ink starts to flow they will take notice and not until then.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 3, 2023 14:13:35 GMT
Early reports about the Lionel Strasburg 2-10-0 Decapod #90 have been scattered, some working great and others reporting problems.
Sighhhhh…. Looks like it’s another roll of the dice. I’m still waiting on my invoice and I will pay it as #90 is a locomotive I’ve desired to be made more than any other.
This offering’s performance, especially at its price point, may determine my future Lionel purchases. It’s difficult for me to say it but with past issues of their products I’ve experienced mounting, some fixed some needing a fix, is wearing me out. If I never bought another train again I have enough models that work to have fun with the hobby for a lifetime.
David I hope you’re provided a fix or resolution for your passenger cars. Another roll of the dice indeed; and the dice are loaded and not in our favor I am afraid. I cancelled my #90. If Lionel get's it right I may buy from future offerings.
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Post by gpritch on Dec 3, 2023 15:34:46 GMT
the Philadelphia Enquirer delivered. I can’t tell you how many spelling errors are made. None of the writers as far as I know even proof read their article just relying on spell check. Sometimes there are a number of incorrect spellings in the same article regardless of length. I get your point, but it's the Philadelphia Inquirer . . . Just saying
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Post by Adam on Dec 3, 2023 15:37:34 GMT
The funny thing is that, in theory, this is the simple stuff. Spelling, we have technology for that to make it brain dead easy. Anyone read a newspaper lately. I get, on most days, the Philadelphia Enquirer delivered. I can’t tell you how many spelling errors are made. None of the writers as far as I know even proof read their article just relying on spell check. Sometimes there are a number of incorrect spellings in the same article regardless of length. Fair point. Online news articles are also fraught with mistakes. Probably many are written by AI. |
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 3, 2023 17:48:34 GMT
So you all know that I'm as objective as can be, when it comes to reviewing a product. When a supplier hits a grand slam, I say it. And when they make a major faux-pax, I'm never shy to call them out on it either. We speak the good and the bad here. And I make no apologies for it.
Sadly, this post is gonna be one of the latter. And OGF is the perfect place to say it, because threads don't get deleted for calling out the truth. And this is the truth: Lionel is producing FAR TOO MANY products these days. And with few exceptions, they've lost complete control of what comes out of the factory. It appears the ONLY time products meet the bar is when production is closely supervised. Failing that, THIS is what we get:
Meanwhile, 2023's Big Book (Volume 1 Catalog) showed the following:
There is an old Pennsylvania Dutch say that goes something like 'the hurrier I go the behind I get'. This would seem to characterize the situation Lionel finds itself in today. Too many offerings and too much rush to get all 2023 items in country while it is still 2023. Whatever QC problems Lionel had have merely increased as a result.
Take note, mind you. This is not some starter set that's gonna get tossed within days of presents being opened under the tree at Christmastime. This is Lionel's flagship Christmas passenger set that stickers at a staggering $1,800 MSRP for all 7 cars. ABS plastic cars too -- not the preferred aluminum cars of years ago. And then you're looking at another $1,100 to $1,400 street-prices for either of the matching locomotives (E8 diesels or F-19 steamer).
Did Lionel Stateside not see the final cars that were produced? And if they did, how could they in good conscience ship faulty products to their dealers/distributors anyway???
Lionel's "party line" when the company switched from aluminum to ABS plastic construction was that aluminum was getting far too expensive to procure, and sources were getting scarce. Going the ABS route would be LESS expensive with fewer production delays and less waste of materials. So they said. I say... WHAT. A. CROCK!!!
PLASTIC cars are now priced at over $200 MSRP per car. The StationSounds cars have now hit the $450 MSRP mark. And Lionel claims their 21" ABS passenger cars are now EASIER for buyers to add their own passengers after the fact. That's right... most of these 21" premium-class coach cars don't even come with passengers included, when we fork out all these hard-earned dollars.
So with all of that said, is it really too much to expect the ULTIMATE in product quality?
Apparently so... because a basic spelling mistake slipped through the cracks on this set. Note to Lionel's factory: It's YULETIDE -- not YUELTIDE for gosh sakes!!!!!
Yes... I suppose it's true that "factory errors" always occurred from time to time -- even back in the Lionel Toy Corporation's glory days. But those were one-off factory errors that were easily fixed with an exchange -- not misspellings in an entire production run. And who APPROVED this? Anyone? Or were they too busy overseeing other projects? If the latter, then the answer is simple. Offer LESS products. Closely supervise ALL the products. And manufacture the ones you do offer better. Capiche???
Today is Saturday. Lionel is closed. But Monday morning I'll be calling Lionel customer service to see what the story is behind this faux-pax, and to see what they're going to do about it. If the answer is NOTHING... or if they try to spin this off as some unique variation of spelling in a remote part of the world... then I'm returning the 4-pack and 2-pack that I purchased locally at Nicholas Smith Trains for a full refund -- not store credit. And as a dealer with clout, Nicholas Smith Trains will have to deal with Lionel in terms of moving forward with products that don't pass muster. There's just no excuse for this nonsense.
The irony behind this is that I've typically passed on Lionel's 21" passenger cars nowadays -- instead preferring MTH's 18" cars. They look better on most layouts. They come with passengers already installed. And the quality is tried-and-true. The only time I look toward Lionel is for the special-effects sound cars. And for that reason alone, I'm inclined to keep the StationSounds Dining Car of this set... and I'll run it with MTH Christmas passenger cars I already own. Plus, I pre-ordered the StationSounds Diner back at catalog pre-order time, when dealer prices were significantly discounted off MSRP.
THIS set is undoubtedly quite attractive. And it wasn't until Lionel offered a matching paint scheme when they announced the F-19 steamers that I decided to spring for the entire set along with the locomotive. Something special for Christmastime. Or so I thought. I passed on the E-8's and have no regrets on that decision. Given the choice between diesel and steam, I'll mostly choose steam. And I'm apparently not alone. The Christmas F-19 has reportedly sold well with dealer pre-orders... so much so that the big dealers grabbed the remaining North Pole Central passenger cars from Lionel AND increased their asking prices!!! If they haven't already sold-out, some dealers are now asking full MSRP. But I wonder how long that's gonna fly, once word gets out that Lionel's factory made another screw-up in the production process. Dealers won't be able to give these away, if Lionel doesn't step up to the plate and issue a new car with the correct spelling of YULETIDE.
So at a time when Lionel is delivering PALLETS of toy train products to dealers this month, train shop employees will now have to deal with product returns if they're not already busy enough picking, packing and shipping product orders. Between the color problems with prototype Dreyfus models... and now an annoying misspelling that mars an otherwise eye-catching passenger set, I'd hate to be caught in the middle of so many customers returning faulty products. But if Lionel won't stand behind their mistakes, then returning faulty products for a full refund is the only way to go.
I'll keep you posted next week, after I call Lionel customer service on Monday.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 4, 2023 16:00:56 GMT
Spoke to a very polite and professional customer service rep about this on Monday morning. She was unaware of the issue. And she asked that I send her a photo of the misspelling, so she could send it to the product team and provide me with their feedback. Email already sent with the photo.
I do worry that these folks are extremely busy and overwhelmed during this time of the year. As we've stated a few times, Ryan has alluded to LOTS of product from 2023 catalogs going out the door to distributors and dealers between now and the end of the year. That's just one side of "busy". Add to that the number of folks calling in with questions about problems, issues and general dissatisfaction with said products... and the level of their feeling overwhelmed quickly becomes mind-numbing.
Managing these problems only tends to work when the problems are the exception. When the problems becoming the norm, it can get scary quite quickly.
So we shall see. But I do want to know quickly what Lionel plans to do about this, since we won't have forever to decide on returning these cars for a full refund from a dealer if Lionel decides to do nothing.
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