|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 16:06:08 GMT
Spoke to a very polite and professional customer service rep about this on Monday morning. She was unaware of the issue. And she asked that I send her a photo of the misspelling, so she could send it to the product team and provide me with their feedback. Email already sent with the photo.
I do worry that these folks are extremely busy and overwhelmed during this time of the year. As we've stated a few times, Ryan has alluded to LOTS of product from 2023 catalogs going out the door to distributors and dealers between now and the end of the year. That's just one side of "busy". Add to that the number of folks calling in with questions about problems, issues and general dissatisfaction... and the level of overwhelming quickly becomes mind-numbing.
So we shall see. But I do want to know quickly what Lionel plans to do about this, since we won't have forever to decide on returning these cars for a full refund from the dealer if Lionel decides to do nothing.
While I sympathize with the normal seasonal rush, the additional burdens to which you refer are self inflicted unfortunately. Those I have a hard time sympathizing with and I score high in empathy! Meanwhile, Trainworld's reply was short and sweet. Lionel (whoever that really is) is aware of this. Send it back. My followup question was all the cars and the double As as well? Without cars I don't need an engine. We shall see how that goes. What a humbug.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 17:16:15 GMT
Well of course the 30 day return policy is in force so based upon the shipping schedule the engines and 2 car add on pack do not qualify for return. Makes for a pretty short consist!
This stinks for the dealers and their customers.
Unless I am mistaken it has been stated elsewhere that this was an error Lionel had been made aware of quite some time ago. Perhaps the cars had already been painted; who knows.
If true giving Lionel an opportunity to figure out what to do seems overly generous.
To think that Lionel sent out these sets knowing that they was a misspell error is ludicrous, and indicates to me a certain degree of contempt Lionel has for their own customers.
The sensible solution would be for Lionel to make an announcement that they will make a replacement run of properly spelled Yuletide car shells to be shipped at no cost to the original owners of the set via their dealer network. Then everybody could relax and enjoy their sets
To leave their customers in limbo is not acceptable.
In the meantime the return clock is ticking.
If it comes to that I shudder at the thought of trying to explain this dispute to a credit card customer service person, but if Lionel drops the ball that is exactly what I will be doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 4, 2023 17:20:04 GMT
While I sympathize with the normal seasonal rush, the additional burdens to which you refer are self inflicted unfortunately. Those I have a hard time sympathizing with and I score high in empathy! Meanwhile, Trainworld's reply was short and sweet. Lionel (whoever that really is) is aware of this. Send it back. My followup question was all the cars and the double As as well? Without cars I don't need an engine. We shall see how that goes. What a humbug. The "sending it back" approach begs more questions than answers: Namely, is Lionel gonna essentially "do nothing"? Hoping buyers will just keep the faulty car and turn this into a 6-car passenger set instead of 7? Will Lionel refund buyers for the "flawed car" at 1/4 the purchase price of the 4-pack?
The flawed car is part of a 4-pack SKU, and the packaging is such that you can't just ship one car in its own box. The new plastic clam-shell packaging doesn't have individually packaged product boxes anymore... except of course with the individually purchased StationSounds diner. You're SOL with 4-packs and 2-packs. Yet another reason why I hate this new packaging for Lionel's 21" passenger cars.
I don't doubt that SOMEONE at Lionel is aware of this. Just that the customer service reps on the front-line might not be aware (yet). The rep was polite enough that I'll play the game for a day or two to see how Lionel responds. Meanwhile I've also alerted Nicholas Smith Trains about my dissatisfaction -- who, by the way, was also unaware of the issue until I told them about it.
It's really amazing how one silly screw-up can affect people's desire to own not only this set, but also the E-8's or F-19 locomotives!!! I have the F-19 Christmas locomotive on pre-order, but could easily use it with a set of similarly colored MTH Christmas passenger coaches. So all would not be lost on that front.
It's just a darn shame what poor quality control causes in the big picture of enjoying this hobby.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 4, 2023 17:31:22 GMT
... Unless I am mistaken it has been stated elsewhere that this was an error Lionel had been made aware of quite some time ago. Perhaps the cars had already been painted; who knows. If true giving Lionel an opportunity to figure out what to do seems overly generous. To think that Lionel sent out these sets knowing that they was a misspell error is ludicrous, and indicates to me a certain degree of contempt Lionel has for their own customers. The sensible solution would be for Lionel to make an announcement that they will make a replacement run of properly spelled Yuletide car shells to be shipped at no cost to the original owners of the set via their dealer network. Then everybody could relax and enjoy their sets ... I agree on all points. If Lionel did in fact know about this and still shipped the cars to their distributors and large dealers, then that's a new low of lackadaisical contempt for buyers.
I'm hoping for a correctly painted shell as the best solution. Failing that... a thin placard with the correct spelling to be applied by the customer would be "acceptable". But Lionel has gotta say SOMETHING. The denial in complete silence approach doesn't cut it.
We shall see what I hear back from Lionel... and I will report accordingly.
|
|
|
|
Post by healey36 on Dec 4, 2023 17:33:23 GMT
In the prewar tinplate world I run in, examples of factory errors seem to be highly prized. Maybe this...no, never mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 17:44:25 GMT
The one thing you have to give Lionel is that they are consistent. I also alerted one of my favorite dealers of the misspelling to save them the cost of return shipping if their customers were dissatisfied.
|
|
|
|
Post by josef on Dec 4, 2023 21:04:27 GMT
... Unless I am mistaken it has been stated elsewhere that this was an error Lionel had been made aware of quite some time ago. Perhaps the cars had already been painted; who knows. If true giving Lionel an opportunity to figure out what to do seems overly generous. To think that Lionel sent out these sets knowing that they was a misspell error is ludicrous, and indicates to me a certain degree of contempt Lionel has for their own customers. The sensible solution would be for Lionel to make an announcement that they will make a replacement run of properly spelled Yuletide car shells to be shipped at no cost to the original owners of the set via their dealer network. Then everybody could relax and enjoy their sets ... I agree on all points. If Lionel did in fact know about this and still shipped the cars to their distributors and large dealers, then that's a new low of lackadaisical contempt for buyers.
I'm hoping for a correctly painted shell as the best solution. Failing that... a thin placard with the correct spelling to be applied by the customer would be "acceptable". But Lionel has gotta say SOMETHING. The denial in complete silence approach doesn't cut it.
We shall see what I hear back from Lionel... and I will report accordingly.
I admire your patience and acceptance of possible solutions. Hopefully, Lionel listens and comes through.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 21:52:50 GMT
Anybody know who the Saint of Lost Causes is? I may start praying to that Saint on behalf of Lionel!
|
|
|
|
Post by healey36 on Dec 4, 2023 22:17:43 GMT
St. Jude
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 22:25:15 GMT
OK folks hang onto your hats for this response from Lionel provided to me by a known Lionel dealer. To paraphrase, Lionel has no intention to produce a replacement or refund the cost of the Yuletide car because it was produced as it appeared in the catalog.
Other than the absolute absurdity of that thought process, I would like to ask Lionel which catalog are they referring to as the governing catalog document since the on line catalog has the correct spelling while the print copy has the error.
What if you never received a physical copy of the 2023 catalog and ordered on the basis of the on line catalog?
I am not sure even St. Jude can salvage this kind of corporate mentality.
Some of Lionel's biggest dealers need to have a gut check conversation with Lionel.
|
|
|
|
Post by steveoncattailcreek on Dec 4, 2023 22:41:48 GMT
FWIW, I am surprised Lionel didn't at least offer some kind of patch -- a sticker or panel with the correct spelling, self-adhesive or at least designed to be attached to cover the offending mis-spelling. That way, there'd be little or no visible evidence of the error, and if the resale market takes off for these "inverted Jennie" analogs, you could just remove the sticker!  |
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 4, 2023 22:47:42 GMT
No paraphrasing is necessary. THIS is the EXACT response I just received from Lionel customer service's TALKTOUS department this afternoon. I spoke with this rep this afternoon, and she promised me she'd contact Ryan Kunkel to get an explanation as to what happened and what might be done to correct the misspelling. THIS is the exact content of the email... short and direct... right to the point.
All I could do was candidly tell her Lionel needs a new product manager... and fast. AND that I'd be returning the 4-pack and 2-pack to Nicholas Smith Trains for a complete refund. Of course, I also sent her Page 172 of the 2023 Big Book, where the set was catalog'd with the CORRECT spelling of the passenger coach YULETIDE.
*****
Per our production manager
It was cataloged this way. No plans to rework.
Thank you <signed by the customer service rep> *****
At this point, I honestly don't know what to say... because there is nothing else to say.
The sad thing is I was willing to give Lionel a chance to make this right. And they still screwed-up ROYALLY. Lionel is behind hope at this point, and they deserve ZERO empathy for the self-induced stress that comes from their own incompetence. For an $1,800 7-car passenger set, there is no excuse for this nonsense.
So if we're looking outside our windows and looking at a bright sunny day, Lionel wants us to believe it's cloudy and rainy just because they say it's raining. Un-freakin'-believable... and an appalling display of arrogance, if you ask me.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 22:49:56 GMT
If this is indeed Lionel's final answer, it smacks of so much arrogance and contempt for their customers that I have no civil words with which to respond. Simply unbelievable and extraordinary lack of customer service and customer loyalty.
|
|
|
|
Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 22:55:35 GMT
No paraphrasing is necessary. THIS is the EXACT response I just received from Lionel customer service's TALKTOUS department this afternoon. I spoke with this rep this afternoon, and she promised me she'd contact Ryan Kunkel to get an explanation as to what happened and what might be done to correct the misspelling. THIS is the exact content of the email... short and direct... right to the point.
All I could do was candidly tell her Lionel needs a new product manager... and fast. AND that I'd be returning the 4-pack and 2-pack to Nicholas Smith Trains for a complete refund. Of course, I also sent her Page 172 of the 2023 Big Book, where the set was catalog'd with the CORRECT spelling of the passenger coach YULETIDE. Un-freakin'-believable!
*****
Per our production manager
It was cataloged this way. No plans to rework.
Thank you <signed by the customer service rep> *****
At this point, I honestly don't know what to say... because there is nothing else to say.
The sad thing is I was willing to give Lionel a chance to make this right. And they still screwed-up ROYALLY. Lionel is behind hope at this point, and they deserve ZERO empathy for the self-induced stress that comes from their own incompetence. For an $1,800 7-car passenger set, this is no excuse for this nonsense.
Wait a second, my catalog has the incorrect spelling while the online spelling is correct. Could there be two versions of the in print catalog? That would only make this fiasco even more bizarre!
|
|
|
|
Post by josef on Dec 4, 2023 23:12:11 GMT
The only solution to all these problems and avoid having to post and read these problems is to stop buying any Lionel items unless you can see the actually item and test run by the dealers before purchasing.
|
|
