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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 26, 2021 2:10:00 GMT
Maybe the variety of product in a shrinking total market is a strength, not a weakness? Why would they focus on the scale segment to the exclusion of all the other niches in the hobby? Perhaps they know something we don't? Neil, I think the profit margin on high end scale engines is considerably greater than on less expensive trains. They sell less units but make more money. They probably have to sell quite a few train sets and rolling stock to match the profit on one expensive scale engine. As long as people are willing to pay $1,000 to $2,000 and more for an engine they will continue to make them. I assume that as well but we just don't know. Given the number and sheer cost of higher end products in the current catalog, Lionel must think they will sell reasonably well, and Lionel have repeatedly said that fantasy/non-prototypical schemes sell very well. But how many people are there out there who, knowing Lionel's recent QC track record, are going to splash out on more than one of these? On the other hand, if you look at another Forum's "what are you going to buy" pages, there's no small enthusiasm for multiple models. I'm probably out of touch but I don't geddit.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 26, 2021 5:33:36 GMT
I assume that as well but we just don't know. Given the number and sheer cost of higher end products in the current catalog, Lionel must think they will sell reasonably well, and Lionel have repeatedly said that fantasy/non-prototypical schemes sell very well. But how many people are there out there who, knowing Lionel's recent QC track record, are going to splash out on more than one of these? On the other hand, if you look at another Forum's "what are you going to buy" pages, there's no small enthusiasm for multiple models. I'm probably out of touch but I don't geddit. This catalog continues a trend that started a couple of catalogs back... hit a good stride in the last catalog with close to a dozen FM Train Masters (including special-runs for dealers and clubs)... and is now pushed to the limits with MULTIPLE $2,500+ offerings.
At roughly $450 street prices, it was conceivable that a die-hard FM fan like myself might spring for a few of these post-war favorite locomotives that Lionel FINALLY modernized to be sweet-sounding, highly detailed models. But Lionel has gotta be smoking some mighty strong stuff to think a significant number of enthusiasts are gonna purchase multiple 2-10-10-2's AND multiple Acela's. Then again, perhaps Lionel thinks we'll all place gobs of pre-orders like these high-end offerings are just silly poker chips where the $1,000 chips look no different than the $1 chips. So enthusiasts will spend, spend, spend... until they realize they've run up $15K in pre-orders!!!
Think I'm kidding? Hey I can recall when guys like Tony Lash would buy one or two of everything in the catalog. Even Tony would go broke doing that in the latest Lionel catalogs. Seriously... how many Vision Line steamers were catalog'd last year? (Which we still haven't seen yet, by the way.) And look how many $2,500 offerings are in THIS catalog too. Or even $1,600 Verandas in how many different roadnames? Lionel just loves pushing the envelope, until the absurd just keeps getting more absurd.
Stepping down from my soapbox now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 14:41:52 GMT
On further review of the catalog it does say the SD70 will handle 036 My Lionel C44-9W list it will negotiate 036 on their site. In the manual it states 036 curves but not with certain freight cars. It didn't like going through the o36 curves at all at first but after tightening the motor screws it has done better. It still will not work with certain cars.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 27, 2021 9:44:08 GMT
“But I’m slightly put out by the fact that although there’s SuperBass in the fuel tender, there’s no mention of sound in the engine itself; the TMCC version has a big speaker right over the fuel tank, which I bet they have quietly eliminated in favor of all sound being in the tender.” I don’t read it that way. Superbass is being “added.” I would bet that there is sound in the engine. I'm happy to say, Forrest, that your reading was more correct than my pessimistic one.
Of course these models have yet to be built, and past Lionel reworkings of classic engines have gone badly awry, but at least there has been some thought applied to this one.
Dave O. has issued a kind of bulletin on the new Veranda Turbine after somebody who I think has his ear raised a couple of questions that I had about this model. I don't know why Lionel didn't call this a VL engine with such a feature set - my highlights in blue below and some of these, including the ability of the engine to run on its own without the tender, mimic the features of the original TMCC version:
Bluetooth control in both engine and tender. The tender will be slave to the engine, and will require the engine to operate. The engine can also be operated alone.
Mechanical features:
Lots of die-cast. Tooling mods done to the shell for electronics upgrades, but still a big, heavy die-cast body. Both the engine and the tender will use handrails on the roof for the TMCC antenna. Tender shell is also die-cast.
Trucks have been reworked. The inner two trucks will be powered, getting our standard Mabuchi motors. Gearboxes will be backdrivable.
The engine's switches will all be under a roof hatch. The tender switches will all be on the underbody.
Electrocouplers on front and rear of engine, and the rear of the tender. Front of tender will get a mechanically operating coupler. Catalog said operating coupler on rear of engine, but that was a typo - it will be an electrocoupler.
Electrocoupler on/off switch on engine to turn off the rear coupler for when not running in a Legacy lash-up.
Front and rear of both engine and tender will be scale coupler compatible.
Two smoke units. One for the turbine and one for the aux diesel engine.
Sound features:
Engine is getting a 40mm Legacy speaker. Since the engine can be operated stand-alone, the sounds will be comparable to a Legacy Diesel engine.
Tender will be all about that bass, getting two 40mm Legacy speakers. The sound sets will be balanced between the engine and tender, and will be comparable to A and B F-Units we've done lately.
Both engine and tender will get dialogue and signal switches, so if you're operating outside of a Legacy lash-up, you can use the switches to choose where the dialog, horn, and bell sounds come from.
Sounds for the turbine and the diesel engine will work when appropriate and operated with the smoke units. The engine will start with the diesel engine, and above a certain speed step, the turbine will kick on.
Other features:
Track IR added to engine belly tank.
LED lighting throughout. MARs on the front where applicable.
Engine and tender will each have their own dedicated Legacy board. Each will have a RUN/PGM switch. Set both to the same TMCC ID for preferred operation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 14:01:07 GMT
Much better description. Need to look at it again. Still, it is awfully big. Would look good with the Jawn Henry,
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Post by ptc on Jan 27, 2021 16:46:21 GMT
How Lionel handled the OGF transaction leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I spent a good deal of time working with them only to have it all thrown in the trash basket when they made a proposal that would have made it impossible to complete. I bet there is quite a story behind the curtains (and it is not the Great Oz) how this all happened.
No surprise, I will not spend one cent on this catalog or probably little to nothing for future catalog offerings. They lost a good long-term customer.
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Post by fabforrest on Jan 27, 2021 16:55:40 GMT
“ I'm happy to say, Forrest, that your reading was more correct than my pessimistic one. ”
Terrific. You gonna get one?
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 27, 2021 19:33:31 GMT
Terrific. You gonna get one? I have to say that initially I was very keen - for the Greyhound version, assuming it gets built. But I am still on the fence, despite having agitated with Lionel myself to remake the Veranda. I am none too happy with a lot of things about Lionel, not the least of which is inability/unwillingness to deliver what they offer, and a pretty arbitrary pricing system. (The answer Dave O. provided was not everything I wanted but realistically is as good as it is going to get.)
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 30, 2021 15:25:22 GMT
Just for Espee fans: Hot off the press, as in this (Saturday) morning, is the latest Eric's Trains video, this on the VL GS locos - or two of them.
One is the "pilot" or unpainted brass hybrid version, which is not something I go in for. The other, however, is a GS4 in the Daylight scheme. You need to scroll in about 13 minutes to get to that.
As far as I can tell, the colors are a reasonable match for my 2013 Daylight cab forward, which is something I was interested in seeing. Anyway, here it is for those who want to take a look:
Anyway, my day certainly needed a little lightening up, which this does.
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