|
Post by david1 on Jan 6, 2023 4:04:15 GMT
The new Lionel ZWL transformers are out. Muffins trains has them. Reg. $999.00 muffins price $909.00.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by Traindiesel! on Jan 6, 2023 8:22:28 GMT
My first reaction is that it seems Lionel is determined to destroy the hobby with their pricing.
I feel bad for anyone trying to start out in the model train hobby that can’t afford these prices. HO trains aren’t much better.
|
|
|
Post by edlloyd on Jan 6, 2023 11:26:43 GMT
I agree with the crazy prices these days. Everyone is getting in on the action. I would save yourself some good money and buy the MTH Z4000. It's a great power source.
|
|
|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Jan 6, 2023 14:52:42 GMT
We need Menards to get in the transformer business!
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 6, 2023 15:30:37 GMT
I agree with the crazy prices these days. Everyone is getting in on the action. I would save yourself some good money and buy the MTH Z4000. It's a great power source. Just sayin' - I've used both and the ZW-L is better if you are running Legacy and it works fine with the DCS system. Street price-wise the ZW-L is now slightly above $100 more than than when I got mine. Build quality leaves something to be desired, however, as one handle on mine creeps up to maximum voltage wherever I try to set it but output is never more than 16.5 volts at the track. (That probably has something to do with the old K-Line SuperSnap track I use.)
Broadly I agree that the prices for transformers and control systems are way above what a starting O gauge hobbyist would or could pay - especially after reading about operating issues and lack of product back-up.
I would not want to be a dealer trying to sell this stuff.
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 6, 2023 16:05:11 GMT
<abbr>...</abbr> I would not want to be a dealer trying to sell this stuff.I don't know what to believe anymore. I agree with these sentiments 1,000%. Then again, Mr. Muffin's Trains appears to have had no problems selling out of their Vision Line Class A "special run of 50 units" in the Pennsylvania RR livery at roughly a $1,900 selling price. And peeps are now looking for them, so expect the secondary market for this gem will go bonkers if it hasn't already.
Having said that, I just don't know how much longer dealers can expect enthusiasts to shell out over $80/each for basic pieces of rolling stock. Even Lionel's recently delivered Black River & Western train set consisting of a small switcher loco and three 18" passenger cars sells for $1K with an $1,100 MSRP. Absolute absurdity. The value just isn't there.
|
|
|
Post by dennym57 on Jan 6, 2023 16:14:56 GMT
My layout is too small for that kind of power. We use one at the club, but it's the second one. The other one quite working. One of our members has rank in the LCCA and was able to get it for a reasonable price.
|
|
|
Post by dennym57 on Jan 6, 2023 16:18:19 GMT
We need Menards to get in the transformer business! I dunno, the employees don't know anything about the trains they already have. You wouldn't be able to ask any questions unless you want to see their head pop off and roll around on the floor.
|
|
|
Post by Traindiesel! on Jan 6, 2023 21:30:50 GMT
It’s probably silly to think prices wouldn’t be higher than ten to fifteen years ago. But it seems ALL of the importers are still riding the wave of the Covid shutdown when hobbyists were buying oodles of trains. Prices went up from demand.
But the prices have remained high. The $2000 locomotives, I don’t believe we’re made in large quantities which more than likely facilitated the sell outs. $600-$700 diesels? I’m glad I bought the majority of my collection during the “blowout years” of the late 90s and 2000’s. But these transformers doubling or tripling in price practically overnight seems egregious to me. Can’t run the trains without them. New hobbyists are being held hostage.
|
|
|
Post by JKP on Jan 7, 2023 0:33:51 GMT
My first reaction is that it seems Lionel is determined to destroy the hobby with their pricing. I feel bad for anyone trying to start out in the model train hobby that can’t afford these prices. HO trains aren’t much better. I am glad Im not starting out in this hobby now. Agree HO prices aren't much better (neighbor does HO).
|
|
|
Post by bobthetrainguy on Jan 7, 2023 2:37:20 GMT
<abbr>...</abbr> I would not want to be a dealer trying to sell this stuff.Even Lionel's recently delivered Black River & Western train set consisting of a small switcher loco and three 18" passenger cars sells for $1K with an $1,100 MSRP.
And have you seen what was delivered? Two of the cars look like the were designed by a 3rd grader…
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 7, 2023 2:58:34 GMT
... And have you seen what was delivered? Two of the cars look like the were designed by a 3rd grader… Bob, I just took those same 3 screen-grabs and was literally gonna post the same 3 photos. But you beat me to it. When I first saw Mr. Muffin's email the other night, I noticed the same thing. The trucks on two of the coaches appear to be much further from the ends of the cars than we would normally see in O-Gauge/O-Scale passenger car products. It's more the type of design I'd expect to see in tinplate offerings.
Even if I were to wait out a dealer blowout or deep discount sale, I don't know if I could ever get past the fact that two of these cars have such an odd design. I looked on the Black River & Western websites to review the railroad's rolling stock. And none of the photos of those specific coaches look like the toy-like design in the pictured products. Can't wait to hear Lionel's explanation for what's delivered here. I'm sure they are as surprised as we are. And if so, it just goes to show what little control Lionel stateside has in what actually gets produced by its overseas factories.
Too bad... because at the right price, I would have been inclined to grab this set... since the real railroad is less than a half-hour from my neck of the woods. I was very pleased with Lionel's New Hope & Ivyland train set last year. But this one is a bit disappointing to say the least. The catalog photos depict a design that's closer to the prototype passenger coaches. But you know what they say about catalog illustrations and disclaimers!!!
|
|
|
Post by Traindiesel! on Jan 7, 2023 5:30:33 GMT
And how about those new $100 bobber cabooses?
|
|
|
Post by dlagrua on Jan 7, 2023 10:08:12 GMT
A "discount" price of $909 for a new ZW? IMO that's exorbitant. I'll keep going with excellent used ZW's that I have and can buy at the shows for $125.00. For running new trains just add $5 surge protectors and $2 circuit breakers and you should be safe. I have no idea what Lionel marketing is thinking with their pricing on new equipment. It seems that they will continue the heavy price increases until the demand finally drops off. That certainly doesn't sound like a formula for long term success. AFAIK new Lionel production has been moved to VietNam to achieve higher profits.
|
|
|
Post by trainman9 on Jan 7, 2023 14:56:46 GMT
The new Lionel ZWL transformers are out. Muffins trains has them. Reg. $999.00 muffins price $909.00. Dave I got mine a couple of years ago for $525. I wonder if the new ZW-L’s have improved built in PowerMasters. The original ones are very basic and do not have all the features of either a TPC 300/400 or stand alone Lionel PowerMasters. One other note is that unless you have a command control you can’t access that feature in the ZW-L. I’m happy with mine.
|
|