|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 16, 2020 22:36:10 GMT
Not exactly a Barn Find. It's an Attic Find. Same thing really. A few weeks ago I received a Text message from one of my closest friends (Andrew). It was a picture of a locomotive (Minus the Tender). The message read: "You can have this it was my Dad's before he switched to the smaller scale."My quick assessment was that the locomotive was an early post-war Lionel O Scale engine. Without the Tender it would be hard to put a date on it. (At least it would be difficult for me). The engine in the photo was found by itself in his Mother's attic and had been in storage for a very long time (More on that later). In fact, Andrew had never seen it before. By the time Andrew was born in the 60's, his Father (Mr. D) had switched to HO scale trains. Andrew isn't a Train Guy and he knows that I am, so I was very appreciative of the offer. I thanked him but suggested that the locomotive should stay in his family. He insisted that I receive it though and so I accepted with the deepest gratitude. In my mind however, I had a separate plan. I thought I could find a matching Tender at York, clean everything up, get it running and present it back in honor of his his Father who passed away far to young when Andrew was in his 20's. One week later I got a call from Andrew. We agreed to meet that Saturday when he would present the 2020. Then he mentioned that he had found something else. My question: "You found the Tender?" His response: "More. Much More. I'll show you this Saturday." Saturday arrived and Andrew showed up with a box. A big box! We spent the next couple hours going through everything. The set is old of course but shows little of the wear you might expect. The individual boxes are heavily worn but the cars are in excellelnt shape. The lettering on the cars is clear and intact. Over the coming weeks, I plan to photograph and catalog everything in Mr. D's collection. I want to know everything I can find about this train and the era it comes from. Then I want to get it cleaned, up and running and do it in a way that doesn't damage any of the history of this set. This is where the Forum comes in. I know very little about any of this, especially the restoration process. I need help with the history of the collection, the proper cleaning and restoration, electronics and whatever else goes with it. I need a Team of experts and enthusiasts and I can't thnk of a better place than the OGF. I know this isn't a rare "big dollar" set. That isn't the point. I think this could be a interesting look into the past with the potential to pass that history forward and honor Mr. D in the process. It all starts with the 2020. What do we know?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 22:47:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Adam on Feb 16, 2020 22:50:20 GMT
Emile,
I think I have the same (or very similar) engine, but mine is numbered 671. It’s a model of a turbine. Found mine on eBay and it’s a great runner.
Let us know when you learn more about the items. It’s almost like a treasure hunt!
|
|
|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 16, 2020 23:05:25 GMT
Great work so far guys. Based on Trey’s link, we have a starting point. Here is a relevant excerpt from www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_2020_loco.htm:“The S-2 Steam Turbine Type 6-8-6 Locomotive No. 2020 was based on a prototype built by the Pennsylvania Railroad… Produced from 1946 until 1949, this locomotive did not have magnetraction and it usually came with either No. 2020W or 2466WX tenders that had a whistle and came with staple-end trucks with one electronic coupler…This locomotive came with a smoke unit…This locomotive is equivalent to the 0 Gauge No. 671 (As Adam noted) and this, and other versions of this locomotive, that were produced by Lionel for O and O27 Gauge sets, run best on the larger diameter O Gauge track…There are six variations:” Looks like we need to look at the Tender. Which of the six variations is this?
|
|
|
Post by Adam on Feb 16, 2020 23:10:55 GMT
On that same website near the bottom they give you some clues, bread-crumbs if you will, to figure out which variant tender that is. Whoever these Tandem Associates people are, their website is a wealth of train knowledge. I have used it a few times to figure out when something was made and about it's features.
|
|
|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 17, 2020 0:00:00 GMT
On that same website near the bottom they give you some clues, bread-crumbs if you will, to figure out which variant tender that is. Whoever these Tandem Associates people are, their website is a wealth of train knowledge. I have used it a few times to figure out when something was made and about it's features. Excellent Adam! The six variations are described in an excerpt from www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_2020_loco.htm: “Variation A: Directional Unit and whistle in tender are connected by jacks to the motor that was labeled "ATOMIC MOTOR" in the locomotive. A double worm drive provides the power to the drive axles. In the front of the locomotive is a RED Keystone that has GOLD lettering, and is rubber-stamped "6200". This number is often found missing due wear and handling. On the sides, this version is equipped with shinny nickel rims on the drive wheels. Came with a No. 2020W tender that has WHITE rubber-stamped "LIONEL LINES" lettering on the sides and has grab railings on the sides and the deck. 1946 production. Some tenders are found with the rubber-stamped number on the bottom and these were probably produced in 1947 or 1948.
Variation B: Identical to Variation A, but came with No. 2466WX tender, and it has a BLACK Keystone on the front with WHITE number "6200" heat-stamped. (1946)
Variation C: Has an on-board directional unit whose lever protrudes though the top of the boiler and a single worm drive motor that is labeled "LIONEL PRECISION MOTOR" that no longer has the jacks. The Keystone is a RED numbered "6200" decal on the front of the locomotive, and the No. 2020W tender has a whistle that has a plastic housing, and came with all of the railings that were on the previous issues. (1947)
Variation D: Similar to Variation C, but with blackened steel rims on the drive wheels and came No. 2020W or No. 6020W tender. (1948)
Variation E: Similar to Variation D, but without steel rims on the drivers. (1948)
Variation F: Identical to Variation A, except the motor brush plate is made out of Bakelite and is RED in color. Manufactured in late 1946 and early 1947, these brush plates are also found on the No. 726 Berkshire’s and No. 2332 GG-1’s.”
Variation A looks promising. Our locomotive motor say “LIONEL ATOMIC” and not “ATOMIC MOTOR” but the later could have been a misprint. Additionally, the front of our locomotive has a RED Keystone that has GOLD lettering, and is rubber-stamped "6200" and it has shinny nickel rims on the drive wheels. It also came with a 2020W Tender that has WHITE rubber-stamped "LIONEL LINES" lettering on the sides and has grab railings on the sides and the deck. There is no number stamped on the bottom of the Tender and given the overall condition of the Tender it’s unlikely to have worn off, meaning that if this is a Variation A 2020 it was likely part of the 1946 production. Variation B can be ruled out because our set doesn’t have a 2466WX Tender. Variations C, D and E can be ruled out because they all have a drive motor labeled "LIONEL PRECISION MOTOR" and ours is labeled “LIONEL ATOMIC”. Variation F is a possibility because it is identical to Variation A, except the motor brush plate is made out of Bakelite and is RED in color. If this is a Variation F 2020 it was likely produced in late 1946 and early 1947. So it looks like we have either Variation A or Variation F. It all comes down to the color of the motor brush plate. This leads to my next question: What is a motor brush plate and where do I find it?
|
|
|
Post by bfi66 on Feb 17, 2020 0:22:32 GMT
Not sure but I did find a photo of a 1946 turbine motor with a red brush plate. This may be of help in the treasure hunt afoot! Seems you have Variation A. -Pete
|
|
|
Post by Adam on Feb 17, 2020 0:51:30 GMT
Yep, Pete's got it right, that's the brush plate, part of the old Pullmor motors. I have about half a dozen old locos with Pullmor's in them and had to replace the brushes (actually more like little rods). Here is a diagram of the very simple Pullmor motor.
|
|
|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 17, 2020 1:04:19 GMT
Not sure but I did find a photo of a 1946 turbine motor with a red brush plate. This may be of help in the treasure hunt afoot! Seems you have Variation A. -Pete Outstanding! Thank you Pete and Adam. So far so good. Looks like a 1946 Lionel 2020. I believe this was the first year for Lionel's resumption of Model Train manufacturing following World War II. For further investigation, there was an empty (ie: no catalog) mailer in the box. It was addressed to Mr. D. and purports to be sending a 1949 catalog. Mr. D was born in 1937. Is it possible that he somehow registered with Lionel when he received the Set in 1946? What probably happened to get Lionel to mail him this catalog?
|
|
|
Post by Adam on Feb 17, 2020 1:10:56 GMT
That envelope is the coolest piece of history from that collection. I can imagine Mr. D as a little boy receiving this train and catalog. I recall how cool it was when I got my first train in the early 80s. Mr. D did the same in the 40s, when trains absolutely were on the top of the list for most boys.
Very neat that this envelope survived!
|
|
|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 17, 2020 1:49:17 GMT
That envelope is the coolest piece of history from that collection. I can imagine Mr. D as a little boy receiving this train and catalog. I recall how cool it was when I got my first train in the early 80s. Mr. D did the same in the 40s, when trains absolutely were on the top of the list for most boys. Very neat that this envelope survived! It is very interesting to take this look back. Even the return address is historical: No zip code! Just "New York 10, NY". What did that mean? It's all fascinating.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 2:25:12 GMT
Emile that's an excellent find and story behind it. When I received my 2037 from my step brother a few in the family were upset but the majority wanted it to go to me. I had it rebuilt. It's definitely a sentimental engine for me. I plan to take good care of it and one day it will either go back to the step family or one of my grandsons will get it. I say clean the set up and run it. I believe Andrew would be overjoyed seeing it run on your layout vs sitting on a shelf or packed away.
|
|
|
Post by fabforrest on Feb 17, 2020 3:25:52 GMT
A 2020 was part of my first train set. I still have it. This is a fun thread.
|
|
|
Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 17, 2020 3:43:49 GMT
A 2020 was part of my first train set. I still have it. This is a fun thread. That would be a major break if this turns out to be the same set that you have. It could help us fill in the blanks. I am hoping to find a 1946 catalog and determine which 2020 set we are working with. Maybe there will be some clues in the box. Emile
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 4:05:48 GMT
Great stuff Emile! I’m sure someone here can assist with filling in the blanks. An interesting look back at some classic equipment. As a resource, maybe reach out to the staff at Classic Toy Trains?
Andy
|
|