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Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 18, 2020 20:54:51 GMT
This blurry image from a YouTube video of the 1946 Catalog may have the answer. The middle set is the 1417WS and seems to have all the correct cars and locomotive and tender. The only thing is that our set has and extra car which was likely an add-on at some point.
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Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 19, 2020 3:54:50 GMT
The next thing out of the box is a Lionel No. 151 Semaphore. From the writing "10-47" and "$5.00"on the box, I believe this was a separate purchase in October 1947 unless the writing was done by the Hobby shop to show the stock date and price. Has anyone seen this type of notation by a Hobby Shop or Hardware Store? My other question is regarding the stamp on the box from American Toys. It appears on some of the boxes that I think may have been add-on accessories and also on the Ore Dump Car box which probably wasn't part of the original set and also the Caboose box which I thought was part of the original set but now I'm not so sure. What is the significance of the American Toys stamp and why does it only appear on some of the boxes? All answers or guesses are welcome. This is a work in progress. Emile
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:20:04 GMT
Looks like you are going to have some cool options with this train Emile!! From what I have been able to deduce the "American TOYS" Eagle stamp and derivatives of the Eagle symbol were used to show that products were made in the U.S.A. The same as "MADE WITH PRIDE IN AMERICA" and "PROUDLY MADE IN THE U.S.A." are used today.
Gary.
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Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 19, 2020 14:50:06 GMT
Looks like you are going to have some cool options with this train Emile!! From what I have been able to deduce the "American TOYS" Eagle stamp and derivatives of the eagle symbol were used to show that products were made in the U.S.A. The same as "MADE WITH PRIDE IN AMERICA" and "PROUDLY MADE IN THE U.S.A." are used today. Gary. Thanks Gary. That's very interesting. Does that mean that the boxes without the stamp might have been made overseas? When did Lionel start sending manufacturing overseas? I'm learning a lot as we go and every step is creating as many questions as answers. There may be more history in all this than I had anticipated. Emile
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:58:12 GMT
I'll see if I can find more info Emile.
Gary.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 18:49:55 GMT
I went searching Emile. Blew up the stamp image. What I thought was an image of an Eagle tuned out to be a pony, spaceman and other images. Searched similar images, there are lots. Nearest I can tell is that it is a distributors stamp. The wording on the stamp is American Toys at the bottom of the hat and DIST By TOY MFRS USA.
Gary.
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Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 19, 2020 20:13:21 GMT
I went searching Emile. Blew up the stamp image. What I thought was an image of an Eagle tuned out to be a pony, spaceman and other images. Searched similar images, there are lots. Nearest I can tell is that it is a distributors stamp. The wording on the stamp is American Toys at the bottom of the hat and DIST By TOY MFRS USA. Gary. Great stuff Gary! It's possible that the Distributor stamp is absent from the "Set" items boxes because they were all packaged together in a larger box (which we don't have) and the stamp was placed on the Larger Set box. If that turns out to be accurate then we will have to fortunate break to know whichtems came with the set (and if any are missing) and which items were purchased separately as add-ons or at a later date. This is developing nicely. Thank you for that excellent research. Emile
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Post by bfi66 on Feb 19, 2020 21:16:18 GMT
Ok, back in the hunt...lol! Heres some history on the stamp....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 21:30:48 GMT
Ok, back in the hunt...lol! Heres some history on the stamp.... One place I didn't look...Trademarks. I did find about75 similar stamps from around the world as well. Gary.
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Post by thebigcrabcake on Feb 20, 2020 1:54:31 GMT
Ok, back in the hunt...lol! Heres some history on the stamp.... Brilliant! Way to think "Outside the box". We have a deep bench of talent here and it's already paying dividends. I took a look into this an found that the Toy Manufacturers of the USA, Inc. is mentioned in the October 31, 1940 issue of Domestic Commerce on page 266 with an address of 200 Park Ave., New York. The address: 200 Fifth Avenue, New York was called The Toy Center and was also known as the International Toy Center. It is a complex of buildings in Manhattan that for many years was a hub for toy manufacturers and distributors in the United States, including the Marx Toy Train Co. There were as many as 600 Toy companies at the same time with offices at 200 Fifth Avenue, New York. The Lionel Corporation was not one of them. Lionel was at 15 East 26th Street, New York 10, NY. So why was Lionel stamping it’s products with the Toy Manufacturers of the USA, Inc. logo? Based on some other publication references i came across, I believe Toy Manufacturers of the USA, Inc. functioned as a Trade Group and was involved in Lobbying Federal Legislation affecting the Toy industry, among other things. That’s as far as I got with that. I’m not at all sure it’s correct but at least we’re heading in the right direction, I think.
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Post by bfi66 on Feb 20, 2020 5:48:58 GMT
Ok, in the spirit of retracing history......here is the definitive beginning of the “Toy Mfrs USA” logos appearing on those 1940’s Lionel orange boxes. From my research this appears to be a type, or if you will, a seal of approval by the Toy MFRs USA organization established in 1916 and now known as the Toy Association. Everything you would care to know about the organization and its mission over the years is located here....... www.toyassociation.org/App_Themes/tia/pdfs/events/centenary/theycametoplay.pdf. The site even includes a diagram of the organization over the past 100 years....some excerpts shown below... -Pete
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Post by bfi66 on Feb 20, 2020 5:57:36 GMT
Just a side note.......this is the very thing I enjoy about this forum.......that is, you can have fun with a topic like this and don’t have to worry about someone making fun of the topic or it being deleted on a whim. Everyone is an adult here and are respectful and courteous to threads even when they view a topic not to their liking. Very refreshing......Its no wonder this forum has taken off like it has........just my 2 cents.
-Pete
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 18:56:35 GMT
Pete I found the info on the association but could not find anything on the stamp ... great searching!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 19:37:11 GMT
Nothing like a search through History . Great fun guys!!
Gary.
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Post by Adam on Feb 20, 2020 20:56:26 GMT
Technology, the Internet specifically, has really made this sort of research very easy. It might not have been at all possible to figure out the history of that locomotive without it.
Great work everyone!
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