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Post by madockawando on Aug 14, 2024 18:52:12 GMT
Well I am convinced that complaining about Lionel's pricing on this forum is seen as a basic human right and a duty in the service of mankind. Moreover, it is a twice a year fun spectator sport that no one will deny them.  |
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Post by rockymountaineer on Aug 14, 2024 19:15:03 GMT
Well I am convinced that complaining about Lionel's pricing on this forum is seen as a basic human right and a duty in the service of mankind. Moreover, it is a twice a year fun spectator sport that no one will deny them. And that is perfectly your prerogative to view it that way. However I do find it quite entertaining that fanboys often view ANY discussion of price increases as “complaining”. And I wonder if they realize how building such creative narratives undermines their overall credibility. Sigh…. It is what it is. And nothing will change it. Meanwhile, Lionel still hasn’t explained why B60 baggage cars suddenly carry a $300/$400 MSRP, (i.e., basic vs. VisionLine, respectively), irrespective of inflation. |
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Post by david1 on Aug 14, 2024 19:53:46 GMT
That's why these forums exist to discuss, complain, celebrate, or praise what our favorite train makers are doing. Everything is on the table. If you don't like the subject just pass it by.
Some think they are always right by giving us stats from twenty to 30 years ago. What was your paycheck back 20-30 years ago? Trains are a luxury and luxury items always cost more then they should. My First engine I bought as a adult was $37.50 in 1972 or so. And i thought i over paid!! Do I expect it to be the same price today, of course not! But inflation and political decisions have corroded our buying power.
This will be my last comment on this thread!! Unless someone says something really stupid!!!
Dave
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Post by Traindiesel! on Aug 14, 2024 20:14:18 GMT
Call it inflation or call it greed by the Importers. These days I’m just seeing pricing from all of them that makes me think twice about purchasing and some pricing that causes me to think ‘no chance’. $125 cabooses, $100 box cars, $135 gondolas, $1,700 GG1’s?
Luckily for me I’ve purchased most of my collection before or early on of the BTO madness. The BTO model is the real culprit for the consumer. The Importers build fewer models so the prices go up. It’s what brought Mike Wolf back into the game. No new tooling needed, just make custom runs of every flavor with the tooling they have. Lionel’s pricing is higher because the box reads “Lionel”. Williams disappeared and Atlas is tip toeing in the market.
It’s simple. There is less new product so the prices are higher. So what’s left for the consumer to decide is whether the value is there. As cuckoo as I am for the new GG1, adding $900 from Lionel’s previous models just for Legacy and a few LED’s on the pantographs isn’t a value to me. If I needed another GG1 I could find a MTH model for $1000 less with comparable value to me. It doesn’t mean I won’t buy one but the lack of my perceived value makes me think twice about buying one. Or not at all.
Here’s the thing. It’s not one size fits all. Comparing prices from the past doesn’t mean the value is there for everyone. Just because I may or may not be able to purchase at the current prices doesn’t mean everyone else can. So it’s justifiable for someone who can or cannot pay for these gems to voice their opinions about the value they see. As consumers nobody cares what the Importer's costs are to bring trains to the market. Nobody cares when they see what is being charged about the Importer’s feelings. The consumer only cares about what they want to or are able to pay and their perceived value in the product.
No one is wrong with how they feel about pricing.
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Post by madockawando on Aug 14, 2024 21:02:46 GMT
Well I am convinced that complaining about Lionel's pricing on this forum is seen as a basic human right and a duty in the service of mankind. Moreover, it is a twice a year fun spectator sport that no one will deny them. And that is perfectly your prerogative to view it that way. However I do find it quite entertaining that fanboys often view ANY discussion of price increases as “complaining”. And I wonder if they realize how building such creative narratives undermines their overall credibility. Sigh…. It is what it is. And nothing will change it. Meanwhile, Lionel still hasn’t explained why B60 baggage cars suddenly carry a $300/$400 MSRP, (i.e., basic vs. VisionLine, respectively), irrespective of inflation. Many prices are actually LESS when taking inflation into account. Other prices are close to where they should be as per inflationary adjustment.
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Post by madockawando on Aug 14, 2024 21:04:59 GMT
That's why these forums exist to discuss, complain, celebrate, or praise what our favorite train makers are doing. Everything is on the table. If you don't like the subject just pass it by. Some think they are always right by giving us stats from twenty to 30 years ago. What was your paycheck back 20-30 years ago? Trains are a luxury and luxury items always cost more then they should. My First engine I bought as a adult was $37.50 in 1972 or so. And i thought i over paid!! Do I expect it to be the same price today, of course not! But inflation and political decisions have corroded our buying power. This will be my last comment on this thread!! Unless someone says something really stupid!!! Dave Actually, I think it has been a very interesting, entertaining and CIVIL discussion in this thread. Feel free to jump back in. By the way, that locomotive that you bought back in 1972, would cost you $282.18 in 2024 dollars!
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Post by madockawando on Aug 14, 2024 21:11:12 GMT
Call it inflation or call it greed by the Importers. These days I’m just seeing pricing from all of them that makes me think twice about purchasing and some pricing that causes me to think ‘no chance’. $125 cabooses, $100 box cars, $135 gondolas, $1,700 GG1’s?
Luckily for me I’ve purchased most of my collection before or early on of the BTO madness. The BTO model is the real culprit for the consumer. The Importers build fewer models so the prices go up. It’s what brought Mike Wolf back into the game. No new tooling needed, just make custom runs of every flavor with the tooling they have. Lionel’s pricing is higher because the box reads “Lionel”. Williams disappeared and Atlas is tip toeing in the market.
It’s simple. There is less new product so the prices are higher. So what’s left for the consumer to decide is whether the value is there. As cuckoo as I am for the new GG1, adding $900 from Lionel’s previous models just for Legacy and a few LED’s on the pantographs isn’t a value to me. If I needed another GG1 I could find a MTH model for $1000 less with comparable value to me. It doesn’t mean I won’t buy one but the lack of my perceived value makes me think twice about buying one. Or not at all.
Here’s the thing. It’s not one size fits all. Comparing prices from the past doesn’t mean the value is there for everyone. Just because I may or may not be able to purchase at the current prices doesn’t mean everyone else can. So it’s justifiable for someone who can or cannot pay for these gems to voice their opinions about the value they see. As consumers nobody cares what the Importer's costs are to bring trains to the market. Nobody cares when they see what is being charged about the Importer’s feelings. The consumer only cares about what they want to or are able to pay and their perceived value in the product.
No one is wrong with how they feel about pricing. Here you go! On eBay right now is a scale MTH Pennsy GG1: ONLY $286.99 !!!! "Here is a MTH 20-5501-1 PRR Tuscan Scale GG-1 Electric Locomotive w/Proto-Sound #4876. It features a die-cast body and power trucks, two precision flywheel equipped motors, constant voltage headlights, operating marker lights, remotely controlled ProtoCouplers, cab engineer figure, and ProtoSound 1.0. It is scale length, 20 inches long, and runs on O-72 track. Please see my photos for a full list of all the features of this GG1. This locomotive does not include DCS (Digital Command System) features because it has Proto Sound 1.0. Only locomotives with Proto Sound 2.0 and Proto-Sound 3.0 include DCS functions.
This item has been graded per TCA standards C-8: Like New based on visual appearance. The original box is included. Overall condition is Like New."
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 14, 2024 21:33:58 GMT
That's why these forums exist to discuss, complain, celebrate, or praise what our favorite train makers are doing. Everything is on the table. If you don't like the subject just pass it by. Some think they are always right by giving us stats from twenty to 30 years ago. What was your paycheck back 20-30 years ago? Trains are a luxury and luxury items always cost more then they should. My First engine I bought as a adult was $37.50 in 1972 or so. And i thought i over paid!! Do I expect it to be the same price today, of course not! But inflation and political decisions have corroded our buying power. This will be my last comment on this thread!! Unless someone says something really stupid!!! Dave That last sentence is like waving a red cape in front of a bull. Don't tempt me!
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Post by josef on Aug 14, 2024 21:59:59 GMT
And that is perfectly your prerogative to view it that way. However I do find it quite entertaining that fanboys often view ANY discussion of price increases as “complaining”. And I wonder if they realize how building such creative narratives undermines their overall credibility. Sigh…. It is what it is. And nothing will change it. Meanwhile, Lionel still hasn’t explained why B60 baggage cars suddenly carry a $300/$400 MSRP, (i.e., basic vs. VisionLine, respectively), irrespective of inflation. Many prices are actually LESS when taking inflation into account. Other prices are close to where they should be as per inflationary adjustment. That is funny. So I'm actually paying less now then I did before. I'll tell the Boss that.
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 14, 2024 22:55:23 GMT
I still can’t find the popcorn  |
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Post by david1 on Aug 14, 2024 23:27:22 GMT
Many prices are actually LESS when taking inflation into account. Other prices are close to where they should be as per inflationary adjustment. That is funny. So I'm actually paying less now then I did before. I'll tell the Boss that. You mean were paying less now!!!! It does pay too complain! Yes I know I said the other post was my last but can you blame me??? Dave
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Post by madockawando on Aug 14, 2024 23:29:07 GMT
Many prices are actually LESS when taking inflation into account. Other prices are close to where they should be as per inflationary adjustment. That is funny. So I'm actually paying less now then I did before. I'll tell the Boss that. Sure!!! Just use the handy dandy inflation calculator and show her how prices have decreased tanks to our friend inflation ! |
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Post by rockymountaineer on Aug 15, 2024 0:42:58 GMT
It might appear the minions aren’t buying into your position on Lionel’s prices being such a great deal compared to the inflation calculator — at least not for some custom-runs.
Admittedly, Mr. Muffin’s Trains put 32 potential custom-runs from 2024 Vol 2 on the table… which is a dang aggressive number. And none have sufficient interest to be made as of yet. Regardless, Steve is going forward with the Bicentennial GG-1 on spec, and I think that’s likely to sell when folks see it. I have the same model from the last production-run, and it’s a real eye-catcher.
But his other custom-runs NEED orders if they’re gonna get made. All of these locomotives are big-ticket items. And we could be hitting a threshold, where folks are being HIGHLY selective with their purchases.
Also, as of this post… Brady’s Train Outlet has announced NO custom-runs based on 2024 Vol 2 products. Could it be he’s still feeling over-leveraged on some custom-runs announced from 2024 Vol 1?
whatever the reason, it appears folks aren’t tripping over themselves to spend money on the big-ticket custom-run market right now.
Can’t say I blame people, because it’s one thing to announce a big-ticket offering. It’s an entirely different animal to announce multiple big-ticket items, with EACH ONE having a dozen SKU’s. We all have our limits.
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Post by Country Joe on Aug 15, 2024 3:44:41 GMT
I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments thus far and I realized that Lionel’s prices on its higher end trains were too high for me in the 1990s and they are too high for me now. I couldn’t justify paying that much money for toy trains then and I can’t justify it now.
Me and guys like me aren’t Lionel’s targeted customers. They are marketing to a smaller customer base that has deep pockets and doesn’t mind parting with substantial amounts of the elusive spondulix to get their toys.
For me, the magic that was once Lionel is gone. It will never return. You may feel differently and that’s OK.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Aug 15, 2024 6:48:59 GMT
Spondulix??!! Whoa!
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