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Post by atsda on Sept 1, 2023 2:57:52 GMT
Brian (traindiesel), yor comments are realistic and prophetic. Alfred
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Post by VietnamVet1967 on Sept 1, 2023 5:44:03 GMT
That's what they said in the old days when the first internal combustion cars came around. After awhile it all worked out.
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Post by Bill on Sept 1, 2023 8:23:29 GMT
As for the electric rates, keep in mind electric is a public utility. Any rate increases have to be approved. Here in New Hampshire, our rates just dropped over 30% starting next month. As for the rates you quoted, I'd be interested to see how that works out overall with the reduced rate. Who lives without electricity today? You stumped me on that one. As Yogi Bera used to say, "When you come to the fork in the road, take it."
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Post by josef on Sept 1, 2023 9:39:25 GMT
My goodness. So many points to debate, so little time. Charge times are getting shorter with new technology Only a couple of points. Its a known fact that fast charging these batteries also shortens their life and capacity in short time as all batteries. Heat is a problem on all batteries which is produced also by fast charging and the environment. Here in Florida you maybe lucky on conventional batteries to get 5 years. Something I have found out personally on my vehicles were on my farm I had personal vehicles, Corvette, tractors, motorcycle, and pickup trucks as well as grain trucks get more then 10 years or even more out of the batteries. Long trips may very well take days rather then a day. Disposal of these batteries are and will also be a problem as well as Solar Panels and windmill blades. Ranges touted by many manufacturers just like MPG are done and given in and on usually indoors test areas, not on the road, etc. I do find it odd that those touting Global Warming crisis and go electric vehicles, fly in private jets which burn more fuel then then several hundred cars do in one day, then get into an arcade of Black fuel burning Government SUVs. I'm sure that one day we will find a solution to all problems, but at present we also need to solve problems that are created and made by mining, manufacturing, and disposal of these. I must say and add, we all have opinions, and I respect and learn also from these discussions we have here.
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Post by josef on Sept 1, 2023 10:04:35 GMT
Well, OK - I enjoy discussing these things. Brian - Yes, the fossil fuel industry is putting up as many road blocks as possible. OK - your turn That's not all so. My company Amoco and BP along with Mobil were and are working on technology on many things in the EV field. When I retired we were working on casing for batteries, reducing corrosion on terminals, and many other things that would be used and needed in EV vehicles. Oil prices are and many don't understand by speculators, investors. Yes, OPEC has a price per gallon, but its the speculators that invest that drive prices up also and refineries and subsidiaries have to pay that price. Many don't understand or know that all the oil used in refineries isn't all from their wells or holdings and have to buy also on the market. One must also remember that we can't at present nor near future live without oil and the products that come from oil. The roads we drive on be it EVs or gas, diesel powered need the asphalt. The battery casings, vinyl seats, body parts. The shingles on your roof and insulation in your homes. The appliances that use plastic and furniture. The clothing and shoes as well as tires for your vehicles as well as some medicines all come from oil that the so called "evil oil companies produce". Then there's the power that produces electricity so we can survive that use the lowest commodity left behind after refining that still produces heat, "Bunker fuel". Without the oil companies and their investment in technology and testing in labs and in the fields that has actually benefited the environment and technology for EVs.
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Post by Bill on Sept 2, 2023 2:43:55 GMT
Great points, Josef. I agree with a lot of it. I did say that even if every car in the world was electric, we'd still need oil. I feel it all boils down (pun intended) to how critical each of us feel the "environment crisis" really is. Is it urgent? Do people really think we can keep discussing it for years? I'm just sad that so many choose to believe things aren't that bad, as whole areas of the US slowly become uninhabitable. We could have made changes, but we didn't. But, in the meantime, I'll celebrate the bers, enjoy what I can, and hope I still remember the rest. Happy bers and don't forget to smile. The countdown to Christmas has started. Villagers are waking up, coming out of summer hibernation. Watson, the game's afoot.
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Post by Country Joe on Sept 3, 2023 16:40:48 GMT
I have 2 thoughts on this subject, one on EVs and one on climate change.
1) I am neither for nor against EVs. At this time they are not practical for most people. We have friends that own a Tesla and they love it. It has a range of about 350 miles (they charge it in their garage overnight) making is very practical for everyday use. They also have a gasoline vehicle for longer trips. My beef is not with EVs but with the government trying to force them on us. If EVs are better than petroleum powered vehicles there will be no need to force people to switch. We will voluntarily switch to EVs.
I read an article a couple of weeks ago that said that Toyota is working on batteries for EVs that are smaller, lighter, and cheaper than those in use today, plus they will have a range of about 700 miles and will recharge in 10 minutes. If they are successful in producing these batteries it will make EVs cheaper to buy and much more practical to use. No government intervention needed.
2) Climate change is natural and has been happening for thousands of years. The earth's temperature rises and falls over long periods of time. No reasonably informed person doubts climate change. The government and their propaganda outlets like to frame opponents as climate deniers which is completely untrue. The real debate is whether human activity has any effect on climate. Scientists are split on this issue. Some think that we can either mitigate or exacerbate the temperature to some small degree and others think the forces that create climate change are so large that our efforts to affect it are useless or too negligible to be of any value.
The politicians pushing the radical climate agenda don't believe any of the crap they spew. This is obvious to anyone since they exempt Africa and Asia from all measures to end this supposedly existential crises. Over 90% of the world's pollution comes from Africa and Asia. Any real effort to mitigate the increase in temperature would require Africa and Asia to participate in the climate program. If the US went to zero emissions it would have virtually no effect on climate.
Climate change has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with totalitarian globalist power.
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Post by Adam on Sept 3, 2023 16:46:23 GMT
I have 2 thoughts on this subject, one on EVs and one on climate change.
1) I am neither for nor against EVs. At this time they are not practical for most people. We have friends that own a Tesla and they love it. It has a range of about 350 miles (they charge it in their garage overnight) making is very practical for everyday use. They also have a gasoline vehicle for longer trips. My beef is not with EVs but with the government trying to force them on us. If EVs are better than petroleum powered vehicles there will be no need to force people to switch. We will voluntarily switch to EVs.
I read an article a couple of weeks ago that said that Toyota is working on batteries for EVs that are smaller, lighter, and cheaper than those in use today, plus they will have a range of about 700 miles and will recharge in 10 minutes. If they are successful in producing these batteries it will make EVs cheaper to buy and much more practical to use. No government intervention needed.
2) Climate change is natural and has been happening for thousands of years. The earth's temperature rises and falls over long periods of time. No reasonably informed person doubts climate change. The government and their propaganda outlets like to frame opponents as climate deniers which is completely untrue. The real debate is whether human activity has any effect on climate. Scientists are split on this issue. Some think that we can either mitigate or exacerbate the temperature to some small degree and others think the forces that create climate change are so large that our efforts to affect it are useless or too negligible to be of any value.
The politicians pushing the radical climate agenda don't believe any of the crap they spew. This is obvious to anyone since they exempt Africa and Asia from all measures to end this supposedly existential crises. Over 90% of the world's pollution comes from Africa and Asia. Any real effort to mitigate the increase in temperature would require Africa and Asia to participate in the climate program. If the US went to zero emissions it would have virtually no effect on climate.
Climate change has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with totalitarian globalist power. Well said!
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Post by Country Joe on Sept 3, 2023 16:52:36 GMT
Thanks Adam.
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Post by phil55 on Sept 3, 2023 16:56:18 GMT
Here's my 2 cents worth. The push for electric vehicles is being brought forth by the current administration. They continually throw money at the automakers to develop EV's(12-15 billion just recently).When the current regime in the White House is gone and the money to the automakers stops flowing freely the EV push will go away.
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Post by josef on Sept 3, 2023 17:22:19 GMT
Another reason I'm hesitant on EVs.
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Post by Adam on Sept 3, 2023 19:53:44 GMT
Another reason I'm hesitant on EVs. Wait, it can’t be true! Are you telling me that electricity and water don’t mix?
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Post by rtraincollector on Sept 3, 2023 19:55:58 GMT
To me I'm not ready for a electric car, but I look at it this way. When you can get a full charge in less than an hour, I would consider it but they would have to have a lot of charging stations real close to restaurants, so I could eat while getting a charge, (for trips ) I also would want to be able to travel about 4-5 hundred miles in a 8 hour day ( this would include charging time) when they get up to that speed I will consider it. I have no desire to have one vehicle for going around town and another for trips. I'm the only driver so I only need 1 vehicle, no need for a second one. That only means double upkeep and double insurance cost. otherwise I'm on the fence about a electric car. There are to many negatives out there about them at present, and how many are true who really knows, the ones for electric cars put out just as many if not more than the ones against. When someone claims they can get a full charge in 15 minutes from almost no charge I know that is BS but when you tell me it takes 3 hours to charge I question that also. My main beef is there shoving it down our throats and the U.S. is not prepared for it yet, not enough charging stations, states like CA. can hardly keep there electric grid going as it is.
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Post by david1 on Sept 3, 2023 20:33:09 GMT
Country Joe, you hit the nail on the head. Thank for saying what alot are thinking. Also phil55 for a great comment.
Dave
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Post by david1 on Sept 3, 2023 20:47:39 GMT
Another thing where I live in a over 65 apartment with many others living near by there is only 4 charging stations. The charging stations being almost a half a mile away how are the older people supposed to get back to their apartment and back to pick up your car when its done charging. This is one reason I will never buy a electric car, there are many other reasons but I'm not going into that now.
Dave
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