chuck
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by chuck on Oct 21, 2021 15:01:37 GMT
I was a member over there for years. Was like number 11 went it went live back in say 2000? I still remember the Miserable Cur welcoming everyone to "a place where fellow hobbyists can talk trains for free with no ads" or some such nonsense. In the early years one heavy o gauge hitter left because of an argument over intellectual property rights with the Cur. That was ToyTrains1. That was a foreboding of things to come.
I was booted by AA a few years back. Got into it with him as I bad mouthed Stout and the games they play with the auctions. It was post that was gaining replies...all bad. I told AA it was all about the money (Stout wasn't and advertiser then) and I was told not true! Less than a week later Stout did become an advertiser.
So today I imagine AA is strolling the York Halls telling manufacturers "give me a deal and I'll discount your fees" or telling members post positive and you get a signed AA picture.
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Post by ptc on Oct 21, 2021 18:29:23 GMT
It's times like this that it is good to reflect that the OGF was built on solid management principles to withstand the test of time. As long as we stay true to our values, we will continue to thrive.
1. Our members are Number 1. No organization can survive over the long haul if they loose sight of this. Our members make this all work as they support the OGF in so many ways.
2. We do our best to make the OGF fun. It's all right to laugh and have a good time. Make it all about family and friends interlaced with O-Gauge trains and whatever tasteful subjects are members would like to discuss. After all, this is social media.
3. Celebrate our members at every opportunity. Birthdays, Anniversaries, and special accomplishments, not to mention our weekly feature, the OGF Star of the Week. Who else does this?
4. Moderation, our folks who moderate are like the Maytag Man. Very seldom do we have to moderate as our members respect each other and we don't have silly rules where to or not to post.
5. Always be truthful to our members. Our stats are never pumped up or glossed over. They are what they are and we are proud of who we are.
6. Don't be afraid to think outside of the box. Be innovative and don't be afraid to go where no one else has gone before in the Forum world.
7. Think ahead. Find solutions before problems hit you in the fanny.
8. There are zero plans for a pay-to-play policy for the OGF. The generosity of our member's with their kind donations together with careful financial planning (thank you Wood) have made us a strong player in the O-Gauge Forum world. Wood tells me he sleeps well with no worries about our financial future.
I expect that we soon will get an influx of new members, do you think.
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Post by scoutingdad on Oct 22, 2021 2:52:11 GMT
Not sure what to say on this topic. We have gotten used to getting much of our "internet" stuff for free. But its really not free, someone has to pay for the services we use. I have no issues with paying something to help a forum I enjoy continue to provide access. To be honest I did not even think about chipping in for this forum, nobody asked. I am a digital subscriber to the other forum and do access the back issues from time to time. Honestly I do not even know what to search for most of the time. I also get paid content from another site, but at this point their content is really tired, I've seen what interests me and will probably not renew at the fee they are asking. I pay for magazine subscriptions and the almost daily news paper, what is the issue with paying for a service one uses and enjoys? How many of us pay well over $100 per month for TV and Internet service and then more for a cell phone? How did we ever survive in the 70s and 80s with no cable TV and no cell phone? Let me know what you would like me to kick in to help keep this forum going. Jeff
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Post by dlagrua on Oct 22, 2021 13:32:10 GMT
As a member of numerous forums I feel it is nice to contribute and help out especially on those forums (like this) created primarily for fun. What I dislike (and avoid) is being forced to contribute especially on forums that use the membership list to further their own business interests by selling your email and personal info to advertisers. Pay to play thus creates a private forum that makes it less not more attractive to join. It takes away the warm welcoming aspect and sends a message that it is just another commercial venture.
IMO, a forum should be a place to win friends, share opinions, ideas, welcome hobbyists, have fun and do something good for the hobby. We want the next generation of hobbyists to have free access to read about the hobby and about some of the model railroads that some of us old timers have built. Some of them may even join us.
Having said all of this, where do we make a voluntary contribution and/or join the collectors club?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 13:39:02 GMT
As a member of numerous forums I feel it is nice to contribute and help out especially on those forums (like this) created primarily for fun. What I dislike (and avoid) is being forced to contribute especially on forums that use the membership list to further their own business interests by selling your email and personal info to advertisers. Pay to play thus creates a private forum that makes it less not more attractive to join. It takes away the warm welcoming aspect and sends a message that it is just another commercial venture.
IMO, a forum should be a place to win friends, share opinions, ideas, welcome hobbyists, have fun and do something good for the hobby. We want the next generation of hobbyists to have free access to read about the hobby and about some of the model railroads that some of us old timers have built. Some of them may even join us.
Having said all of this, where do we make a voluntary contribution and/or join the collectors club?
Dennis, well put. If you go to the "shop" section in the top header you'll find where to donate to the OGF and info on joining the NABCC This thread will give some info on the diamond symbol by members names - o-gaugeforum.com/thread/4982/new-members-diamond-symbol
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 14:07:01 GMT
"Having said all of this, where do we make a voluntary contribution and/or join the collectors club?" If you're not already a member, I also encourage you to join TCA. This is a fantastic way to support the hobby; the organization has done--and continues to do--great things to promote our hobby, and of equal importance, preserve the history of toy trains. One visit to the Toy Train Museum in Strasburg will prove that. There is so much more to TCA membership than just "the ability to get into the York Meet." Yes, that is a big perk, but TCA membership is a lot more than that. Check out the website and see for yourself: www.tcatrains.org/ |
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Post by ptc on Oct 22, 2021 14:19:57 GMT
"Let me know what you would like me to kick in to help keep this forum going. Jeff"
Sure appreciate this comment and the others you have made. You are 100% correct, the only "free" part of this equation is the usage. Somebody has to pony-up the funds. The other O-Gauge Forums have chosen the advertiser route to fund their operations. In founding the OGF, we believed there was a much better route where we would be free from a built in conflict of interest in having to protect advertisers. By avoiding advertisers, our members are free to tell it as it is. Our funding comes from the generosity of member DONATIONS, no forced pay-to-play. We conduct an annual Fundraising Appeal and that funds our operations. Our forum is member owned and member financed, something no other O-Gauge Forum enjoys. Sets us up well for the future. If you would like to donate and become a Diamond Member, as RJ suggests, you can use the SHOP function included above. Or, you can send a check in any amount to our Treasurer, Wood Foss. All donations are very much appreciated. New Diamond Members will receive a beautiful OGF Street Sign as a thank you.  
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Post by ptc on Oct 22, 2021 14:28:59 GMT
"Having said all of this, where do we make a voluntary contribution and/or join the collectors club?"
Thanks so much for this comment, Dennis. This is why we have been so successful. In my response to Jeff's comments, you will have the information on how to donate to the OGF. All donations of any size are most welcome.
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Post by stoshu on Oct 22, 2021 14:48:01 GMT
Here is the E mail that started it. The response was interesting....
I attempted to join the OGR Forum again and was declined, I guess because of my inability to prove where I lived or was from. All I know is - I completed the "application" they provided, and that they wanted me to complete.
It appeared my application was DECLINED because I failed to provide proof of address, so in my follow up I asked for a reconsideration and provided them my proof of address. I was still declined and here was the response -
Bryan,
This was referred to me because it appears from your statement below that you don't understand why we declined your request to become a member. Let me try to explain: This is a very large forum and in fact the largest of its kind in the world according to both Google and Yahoo who have conveyed that to us.
Because of the size and differing demeanor and reasons why folks join our forum, we found it necessary to employ a security process which helps maintain security of the site and its membership from hackers, spammers, unrelated advertising, etc.
We realize that this may frustrate some folks especially those that don't understand why a hobby forum would need a higher level of security however we are dealing with tens of thousands of individuals, frankly a medium sized city, and those folks expect us to make sure their info is as secure as possible. When we can not confirm and address in an application, then the security software will ask that an applicant provide USPS proof that mail is being delivered to that person at the address they want to use in their application.
In addition, if you are approved, we will expect you to abide by our terms of service ( TOS ) found at the top of the forum pages particularly since you have made it clear that you will be interacting with the for sale/trade forum which has a set of rules found within the featured topics of that forum.
Finally, very soon we will be requiring forum members to become either a Supporting Member of the forum or to purchase a digital subscription to help contribute to the costs of maintaining such a large forum which generally has over 12 million page views per month.
Regards,
Alan
Alan Arnold
CEO-Publisher
****
So - I found this interesting. Mr. Arnold is stating in his comments that O Gauge / O Scale is a large, robust community NOT on the decline, in fact OGR Forum can hardly manage all the traffic on the forum.
Hhhmm. That caught my attention since the magazine if I remember has gone to 6 times published per year from 12 (I may be incorrect) and it was my understanding print was in decline as a media.
I used to be into the old car hobby and still frequent their free forums. The Antique Automobile Club of America - the AACA - dwarfs the O Scale Model Train Hobby (no offense) and their forum is no cost, they are losing members to age as well. This forum is no cost. I appreciate that forums cost money, but as part of our culture they are generally regarded as "free". We do view ads, and there are sponsors, as we see with Facebook. But in terms of becoming a digital subscriber? I would think many on the OGR Forums will balk at becoming essentially a subscriber to the magazine 'on line.'
Maybe I am wrong.
Anyway, I can still view content on their web forum, but I can not comment. Perhaps in the future NONE of us who are not paying OGR will be allowed even in the door, so to speak.
I still go back to Mr. Arnold's comments that they have so many subscribers, forum members and activity they are so large and must limit who can have access. Wow, I was wrong to think O was in decline. York should be HUGE this year.
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Post by dlagrua on Oct 22, 2021 15:23:49 GMT
Its just not Arnold's letter that caused me to leave that forum. It was due to a number of factors another one being that when I tried to help other hobbyists by presenting thoughtful, honest and helpful comments on possible quality issues with Lionel (and other manufacturers products) they were quickly deleted. Are we required on that forum to lie when we have a quality problem or to just keep quiet and live with it? The owner now wants us to pay him to post comments that are only favorable to his position. That is totally unacceptabe
Putting this behind, I have joined NABCC and now am able to participate in the free and open exchange of ideas and opinions on model railroading. I will certainly keep with expressing respect, courtesy and support for the posters and sincerely hope that my posts here will be well received.
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Post by Sir James on Oct 22, 2021 15:29:50 GMT
I wonder how the sponsor's will feel about losing part of their audience. Mayhap's even a large part.
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Post by RFCTrainGarden on Oct 22, 2021 16:49:26 GMT
Here is the E mail that started it. The response was interesting....
I attempted to join the OGR Forum again and was declined, I guess because of my inability to prove where I lived or was from. All I know is - I completed the "application" they provided, and that they wanted me to complete.
It appeared my application was DECLINED because I failed to provide proof of address, so in my follow up I asked for a reconsideration and provided them my proof of address. I was still declined and here was the response -
Bryan,
This was referred to me because it appears from your statement below that you don't understand why we declined your request to become a member. Let me try to explain: This is a very large forum and in fact the largest of its kind in the world according to both Google and Yahoo who have conveyed that to us.
Because of the size and differing demeanor and reasons why folks join our forum, we found it necessary to employ a security process which helps maintain security of the site and its membership from hackers, spammers, unrelated advertising, etc.
We realize that this may frustrate some folks especially those that don't understand why a hobby forum would need a higher level of security however we are dealing with tens of thousands of individuals, frankly a medium sized city, and those folks expect us to make sure their info is as secure as possible. When we can not confirm and address in an application, then the security software will ask that an applicant provide USPS proof that mail is being delivered to that person at the address they want to use in their application.
In addition, if you are approved, we will expect you to abide by our terms of service ( TOS ) found at the top of the forum pages particularly since you have made it clear that you will be interacting with the for sale/trade forum which has a set of rules found within the featured topics of that forum.
Finally, very soon we will be requiring forum members to become either a Supporting Member of the forum or to purchase a digital subscription to help contribute to the costs of maintaining such a large forum which generally has over 12 million page views per month.
Regards,
Alan
Alan Arnold
CEO-Publisher
****
So, I was a member there for seven years, posted somewhat regularly. I changed the email associated with my account and they locked me out. I tried to start a new account because I didn't know what else to do, they blocked that too and said I was committing some form of fraud. I explained the circumstance and they became demeaning. I provided my mailing address and they said it didn't match what they believed to be correct, then said I entered a different address than I did (it was autofill, I know it was correct). I provided all proof requested. They went through the bit about "small city" etc. I'm the Mayor of a city of 15,000, I literally have access to tons of personal information, so I get the need for security, and, guess what, ogrforum doesn't have any particularly confidential information from members, other than passwords should they be used on multiple platforms. I had been a digital subscriber as well. Then, they told me I'd never be welcomed back... I am very spiteful about it. I never did anything wrong, bought a ton on the buy/sell, never engaged in bickering, and always tried to comport myself well on their site. I'm on forums that have tens or hundreds of thousands of members and are much more accessible. I remain dumbfounded.
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Post by ptc on Oct 22, 2021 20:51:14 GMT
"I am very spiteful about it. I never did anything wrong, bought a ton on the buy/sell, never engaged in bickering, and always tried to comport myself well on their site."I bet you have a lot of company. Not to worry, this time you get to watch the show and enjoy a nice big bowl of hot popcorn. 
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PRR
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by PRR on Oct 22, 2021 21:28:26 GMT
Here is the E mail that started it. The response was interesting....
Finally, very soon we will be requiring forum members to become either a Supporting Member of the forum or to purchase a digital subscription to help contribute to the costs of maintaining such a large forum which generally has over 12 million page views per month.
Regards,
Alan
Alan Arnold
CEO-Publisher
If they are getting 12 million page views per month, and can't monetize that through advertising to support the costs of running the forum, something is REALLY REALLY wrong.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 23:21:22 GMT
There are probably factors in play that are causing many forums to have concern over increasing costs, especially those with a large number of “members”, many of whom have been inactive for a long period of time. This forum is not immune to concerns about dollars, raising money, removing inactive members, questioning some who do not contribute, etc. Expenses are increasing and membership in the hobby is declining.
The other Forum has likely been impacted by numerous factors which have negatively affected the bottom line, some of which are probably significant which can include:
Decreasing magazine subscriptions/increasing expenses
Decreasing sales of other products such as videos, layout supplies such as buildings, wire, etc
Decreasing advertising dollars and possibly a lower number of page views
Increasing expenses
Cost of buying out partners in the business. Several of the previously active partners are retired/deceased. Buyouts can be expensive
Difficulty of replacing the lost talent and knowledge and the resulting requirement to reduce services. Talented people in this hobby are not as plentiful as they once were, the average age continues
to increase, and many key players are no longer available.
We have been members of the other forum for many years and have not had the problems that many here have encountered. We have found the forum to be an invaluable source of information both from active members and also from searches of archived information. It is the most comprehensive source that we have for layout techniques. We have been glad to assist when management offered an opportunity to become a supporting member and will continue to do so, just as we have here.
Our hobby needs various avenues that will help people gain more knowledge and will share it with others. We wish the other forum nothing but the best.
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