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Post by kstrains on Oct 25, 2019 22:04:30 GMT
I be interested to know how theses SD40-2 came out in terms of Milwaukee Road color. Catalog drawing looks good but I have not heard any reviews or seen any photos. These were recently delivered to dealers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2019 18:44:58 GMT
Lionel has actually ruined trains for me. It started when they changed the trucks. I bought one of the gondolas with the new trucks on it and that was the end of freight cars. Then when my Freedom Train and Excursion train came, the horrible paint jobs really turned me off. I'm just not willing to order stuff that is so poorly made. If your business is high end luxury items that are not necessary to people lives, then you should get your act together and hammer out your manufacturing issues in a timely manner instead of destroying your brand and your reputation with stupid, ovoidable errors.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 26, 2019 19:53:41 GMT
Lionel has actually ruined trains for me. ... I'm just not willing to order stuff that is so poorly made. .... Matt, welcome aboard the OGF! I think you'll like it here. Most folks here still want choice in the marketplace, so we want the few importers that we have to continue moving forward. As I mentioned earlier on this thread or another one, the Lionel folks who manned the booth at York seem genuinely sincere people. But they're either working on marching orders from higher level executives or they're simply at the mercy of manufacturing environments that have gotten completely out of control. Not sure how accurate this statement is, but I sometimes here mention of the fact that some Chinese factories no longer allow onsite inspections. IF THAT IS TRUE, then that likely happened only because importers leveraged too much overseas. And that should never have been allowed to happen. Real train guys as executives wouldn't have let that happen, but general executives who can sell widgets just as easily as they sell toy trains don't know any better. I really don't know what Lionel's problem is right now or who's responsible for the complete breakdown of manufacturing control. But it's very, very real. And here's another example: Earlier this year when the first catalog came out, I specifically asked folks in-the-know about the color of the windows in Lionel heavyweight passenger cars. I was told at the time that they were all gonna be the mint-green tint, which doesn't look that bad when the lights are off. But when the cars are illuminated, I think the mint-green looks too tacky for my taste... and I much prefer the amber color that we get with most other illuminated passenger cars.... and I voiced my concern to Lionel quickly about that. Now there are LOTS of heavyweight passenger cars due out from the first catalog... so we'll see what actually gets delivered. However, at York I stumbled upon an interesting observation. Lionel displayed a pair of the "Defense Special" heavyweight passenger cars, that were catalog'd as four 2-packs. Here are two photos of the same car -- just different angles: Noticing anything? The windows immediately above the doors in the vestibule are green. However all other windows in the car are CLEAR. Now when did THAT happen? Will that be a similar implementation for windows in other heavyweights as well? Hhmmm... I'd welcome that, but nobody could confirm that would be the case across the board. The best I got was, "What we're displaying here for the Defense Special cars is what was approved, and we hope that's what will be delivered." OK... that's not exactly giving me a warm-and-fuzzy feeling, so perhaps we'll all hope together with Lionel, and sing Kumbaya for extra reassurance. By the way, if we read between the lines a bit, it sure sounds like Lionel isn't checking this stuff out in China BEFORE it gets shipped to the States. Because if they were, then why say, "We hope that's what will be delivered"? Somewhere along the way, it's apparently possible that changes are being introduced into the products -- whether paint colors, window colors, or even minor changes in product features -- and the changes aren't communicated to Lionel Stateside, and buyers are sometimes the ones who are forced to bring these issues forward. We don't WANT this job, but it has fallen upon those who buy products early. So for that reason (among others), I still won't pre-order this stuff anymore. Instead, I'll buy AFTER I see with my own eyes what actually gets delivered. I'm counting on dealers to order sufficient (i.e., extra) product -- just like the old days. And if I miss buying something -- or if the products are cancelled prior to production because of insufficient pre-orders, so be it. I'm fine with those consequences. Meanwhile in this case.... MTH is making "war bonds" style heavyweight cars that have true prototypes in the Southern Pacific livery -- just arriving at dealer shelves as we speak. They're not red/white/blue striped like Lionel's "Defense Special" cars, but they'll serve a similar patriotic theme in combination with other rolling stock. So yes... choice is always good for buyers. And we wouldn't want it any other way.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 3:33:28 GMT
Thankfully I have a fantastic relationship with my dealer and he inspects and tests everything before it ships to me. Because of him, i believe I got the best set of AFT cars and UP excursion cars anyone could have gotten but Ive also spent a fortune with him so I invested in that relationship but after I get the rest of my UP cars, Im out of the Lionel market. Theres plenty of other stuff I can buy that won disappoint me. I've always been extremely happy with everything Scott Mann has sold me. Maybe that's where my money will go after Smith and Wesson and Samuel Colt get their share for my other collection.
If I was throwing donw $30 or $40 bucks, maybe it wouldnt matter so much but your talking $550 for locos that don't work and the color is wrong, or $150 for a passenger car with scratches and stuff in the paint, or $1500 for a steamer with pink strips instead of maroon. Now im in a better position financially that lots of people so its a smaller drop in the bucket for me but thats still a ton of money to roll the dice on and get something that is just down right disappointing. MTH doesnt seem to strike out even close to as much as Lionel. I feel liek Lionel is playing the cheapskate game and going with the bargain basement builder. Its fun to see people cheapeness screw them but this time its at the expense of us customers and there is just nothing funnny about this.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 20:41:33 GMT
To David’s point, I have three different sets of Lionel passenger cars purchased in different years. Two out of three have green windows. The green looks odd for sure. Lionel locomotives are off from MTH. The orange on the Long Island engines are completely different.
Andy
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 22:22:20 GMT
The Hudson is/was being made in Korea correct? Same has Niagara and some of the other high end engines of late. Anyone who does business in China for lots of reasons better be looking for a plan B.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 22:24:38 GMT
How do we know that the Js were not made in Korea? Yet the stripe is incorrect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 22:40:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 23:34:54 GMT
How do we know that the Js were not made in Korea? Yet the stripe is incorrect. I don’t, I was asking. At least they work, so far that is. Wonder if Harry Hieke will tasked with re painting them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 23:39:09 GMT
How do we know that the Js were not made in Korea? Yet the stripe is incorrect. I don’t, I was asking. At least they work, so far that is. Wonder if Harry Hieke will tasked with re painting them. I would bet they go back to where they were done. Have no hard information on that though. Regardless I hope they come up with a solution. The picture above shows a small variance in paint that would be acceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 0:02:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 0:23:53 GMT
Unfortunately if someone from Lionel approved any of these errors, you can’t blame the factory .
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 28, 2019 6:37:14 GMT
Last thing I'll say about this issue for now is this: I read somewhere that Scott Mann of 3rd Rail / Sunset Models / GGD was heading back to China following the recent York train show to keep close tabs on upcoming projects. THAT's how you stay in touch with overseas factory work these days. From what I've seen, the results show when on-site, meticulous and close attention to project details SEVERAL TIMES throughout a product's life-cycle are an integral part of the importer/manufacture relationship. I can't believe we'd be seeing the rash of product disappointments we've seen form Lionel lately, if Lionel has a similar on-site working relationship with their overseas factories.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 12:33:34 GMT
Unfortunately somewhere I heard not too long ago in a video or interview that Ryan said there was a Lionel rep on site. If that's so that is upsetting to say the least.
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Post by ptc on Oct 28, 2019 13:21:34 GMT
Lionel needs to adopt the Scott Mann quality control solution. Maybe hire him as a consultant.
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