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Post by josef on Dec 30, 2020 23:05:46 GMT
When building a new layout or doing a makeover which is your first priority in a makeover or your first layout, trackage, scenery, or tracks to industries, adding sidings? How important are structures which may change your amount of tracks laid?
As one that is going to do a makeover, I want to change some industries and trackage to them. Some more curves around scenery to hide train temporary and add more foliage, trees, rocks etc. Make the scenery also a part of why there is a curve were there was straight tracks before. Add a grade to an upper level. Change the town completely with more countryside scenery.
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Post by ptc on Dec 31, 2020 0:14:56 GMT
Wow, this is a super thread topic, Walter. I believe you have to first establish a theme for your layout regardless of size or available space. Once you have a theme, the question arises is this a layout build from scratch with maybe some trains, but no scenery? A track plan would be a good place to start and you can build scenery around it. If this is a re-do, then existing scenery that you want to fit in plays an extremely important role. With our layout, on the Christmas in the City side, the Grand Central Terminal dictated a lot in our build plans. This entire side of the layout was built around this famous structure.
On the Polar Express side, the track plan was very important for us to replicate the train tracks going around the Center of the North Pole. So we designed the track plan first and fit the scenery into it.
There is no magic plan here. You have to work with what you have and meet the vision you have for your layout.
We did have a very detailed plan that I saved (I look at it every now and then). Our layout build was very close to this plan. I never regretted the hours I put onto the design phase as it saved my a lot of headaches down the road. Some have a knack of ripping everything out and starting over with no plan, but for me that would never work.
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Post by Country Joe on Dec 31, 2020 0:16:02 GMT
Walt, to me, buildings are the most important element on a layout after the trains themselves. Having a small city, a residential area and/or a small town is very important to me. Second is having a few industrial spurs for a way freight to switch. What I most enjoy is running 2 or 3 trains through the scenes I've created and sometimes switching industries. Lots of track, yards and engine service areas and rural scenery are not important to me. While I prefer suburban or country living I greatly prefer city scenes on my layout.
Since I prefer traditional semi-scale trains, broad curves, while nice if room allows, aren't necessary for me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 2:13:34 GMT
OK Walt, Here comes a third way to build or rehab your layout. Despite having built layouts for Christmas since childhood, I have only built one permanent layout. Christmas 2006, my daughter told me to get the trains out of the attic because the grandkids were being born quickly. Took a piece of 4X8 ply and started setting up a couple of circles with a figure 8 in the middle. It was lots of fun. Then went on eBay and typed Lionel into the search engine. OMG 10,000 items came up and I was amazed. The dream started right then and there.
My skill level was good enough to run the Post War Lionel but I went on the computer and started searching everything about model trains. Each search gave me more information and I kept adding a couple more pieces of ply and new items from eBay. Then I joined a forum. That really pushed me over the edge. I made a couple of friends through the forum and they taught me a lot more.
My point here is that you can not visualize or plan a great layout until you have the knowledge and experience about building a great layout. Probably the most important works for me were articles by Frank Ellison and Dennis Brennan. They gave me vision and technique.
Now that being said, I never torn the layout down and restarted. I modified, sometimes very substantially. My bride, Kathy, kept encouraging me to make it larger and I followed her advice. Before you knew, it took up the whole basement. I now had a vision per Frank Ellison. I wanted an operating layout with lots of activity. Once the track was arranged in a configuration that worked, I started on scenery. I learned a great deal from Dennis and the forums which pushed me to complete the transition from Toy Train Layout to a step up into a High Rail Layout.
It was not necessary for me to rebuild my layout. It was a work in progress and still is. I am very happy with the layout and in my mind, it is a quality layout.
My one PS is to acknowledge and thank the many forum members and friends who shared their information, techniques and friendship through the years.
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Post by josef on Dec 31, 2020 9:28:04 GMT
Very interesting replies. I also plan my layouts for running at least 2 maybe 3 trains at a time. It is freelanced and not taken from any book or article. Things I want to improve upon and made a list on changes and how to implement them with minimum removal. I made a list of needed structures I already had, and those that just took up space with no purpose, or how they can be re-arranged. Those with no purpose or don't add to my theme will be removed and sold. The one thing I won't change and like very much is my storage tracks for rolling stock and engines. Objectives are to move the town. Add a upper level with trackage to it and return.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 13:43:50 GMT
The reasons for my rebuild 1-to be able to get at all sides without climbing on top. Partly do to age but mainly so I would not mess up scenery. 2-to have one loop at a different height. 3-cleaner construction and wiring. 4-to put in sidings that make more sense.
One thing I wanted for sure was to maintain the radius of my curves
I never had a plan with the first and don't really have one with the current build.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 13:47:11 GMT
The one thing I won't change and like very much is my storage tracks for rolling stock and engines.
Objectives are to move the town. Add a upper level with trackage to it and return.
Good objectives Walt. Storage trains and Engine yards are the best. I used to say that all of my rolling stock and engines were on the layout. After a few buying years that ended and I had to build a storage shelf.
Adding an upper level is good to give the layout height. All routes of the layout should integrate with each other.
It is clear you are developing a whole new vision and I look forward to seeing your work. Could you provide a couple of overall pics of now and sequentially of your progress.
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Post by ptc on Dec 31, 2020 13:54:07 GMT
Walt, your thread makes so much sense and helps build interest in our hobby.
Having seen Wood's layout improve greatly in stages, his approach makes a lot of sense as well.
Making good better is what this is all about.
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Post by Adam on Dec 31, 2020 14:45:26 GMT
Great thread. I still have to hone my layout approach and I will be learning the different approaches. My next layout will be significantly larger so I need a plan beyond my current "wing it" approach.
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Post by Country Joe on Dec 31, 2020 15:36:10 GMT
Very interesting replies. I also plan my layouts for running at least 2 maybe 3 trains at a time. It is freelanced and not taken from any book or article. Things I want to improve upon and made a list on changes and how to implement them with minimum removal. I made a list of needed structures I already had, and those that just took up space with no purpose, or how they can be re-arranged. Those with no purpose or don't add to my theme will be removed and sold. The one thing I won't change and like very much is my storage tracks for rolling stock and engines. Objectives are to move the town. Add a upper level with trackage to it and return. While I have no interest in switching yards I would like to have storage tracks where a few trains could be set up and ready to go. I know from experience that yard switching, making up and breaking down trains, is of no interest to me. My last N scale layout had an engine terminal and a yard. I quickly discovered that while yard switching was fun in theory it didn't interest me. I used the yard tracks to store trains that were ready to run. Given the room I would do the same in O gauge though having a lots of buildings is more important to me than staging tracks.
I think the most important thing is to include the things that are most important to you in the space you have available. Since we don't have basements here in Florida we have to make tough choices to include the elements that we most want in our layouts and eliminate others that we would like to have but don't have room for. It sounds like you have a good vision of what you want to do with your layout in the space you have available.
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Post by ptc on Dec 31, 2020 15:45:16 GMT
"I think the most important thing is to include the things that are most important to you in the space you have available. Since we don't have basements here in Florida we have to make tough choices to include the elements that we most want in our layouts and eliminate others that we would like to have but don't have room for. It sounds like you have a good vision of what you want to do with your layout in the space you have available."
Joe, you have done terrific work with the space you have to work with. Your layout provides a lot of interest. You should be proud of what you have accomplished.
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Post by josef on Dec 31, 2020 16:42:57 GMT
The one thing I won't change and like very much is my storage tracks for rolling stock and engines. Objectives are to move the town. Add a upper level with trackage to it and return.Good objectives Walt. Storage trains and Engine yards are the best. I used to say that all of my rolling stock and engines were on the layout. After a few buying years that ended and I had to build a storage shelf. Adding an upper level is good to give the layout height. All routes of the layout should integrate with each other. It is clear you are developing a whole new vision and I look forward to seeing your work. Could you provide a couple of overall pics of now and sequentially of your progress. Will do, right now in the drawing stages with measurement taken for radius, switches and structures. Were I will be adding a switch to an upper open level with one end devoted to scenery and farm with trackage on piers and bridges. Its going to be a little while since I've made changes to already 3 previous drawings because mainly the upper section interfered with the lower trackage I had planned. I want the upper to also be a separate section were I can have either engine, a Budd RC or a Doodlebug spend much time without interfering with lower operation. (hope that made sense)
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Post by g3750 on Dec 31, 2020 16:49:20 GMT
Wow, this is an interesting topic.
I'm not sure how to answer the question. Panhandle 1 (18' x 10') contained the original vision - the cities of Steubenville, OH and Weirton, WV separated by the iconic bridge over the river. Steubenville was envisioned as a generic clump of buildings clustered around 4th & Market streets. Weirton had some aspects of North Weirton (Pennsylvania Ave, County Road, and Main Street) and Weirton Steel. These are all real places. Panhandle 1 was an ambitious design crippled by a lack of space (and my limited abilities).
While Panhandle 2 is a completely new layout (47' x 11') in a new house, it's more of an extension or expansion. Conceptually, it's a do-over. I've expanded a number of aspects: - Weirton Steel's original 3 buildings has grown to 3 larger mills plus the Admin Building and QC Lab.
- Weirton itself has expanded Main Street and gained the No. 1 mill gate area.
- Steubenville is significantly bigger, having gained an iconic station, a much longer Market Street, landmark buildings (The Hub, National Exchange Bank, Sinclair Building), the historic Brownstone area, Water Street, and a few industries (Federal Paperboard, Armour Packing).
- The bridge and its approaches have grown. There is actual consideration given to scenery!
- A Staging Area exists to allow the storage of "ready to run" trains without having to take them on and off the tracks.
I'd say that Panhandle 2 has benefitted from: - A focus on historical accuracy
- The deliberate intention to use more scenery
- A focus on reliability and good engineering vs "get trains running quickly"
Like I said, I don't know that I answered your question, Walt. But I hope this helps.
George
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Post by Country Joe on Dec 31, 2020 16:55:34 GMT
"I think the most important thing is to include the things that are most important to you in the space you have available. Since we don't have basements here in Florida we have to make tough choices to include the elements that we most want in our layouts and eliminate others that we would like to have but don't have room for. It sounds like you have a good vision of what you want to do with your layout in the space you have available."Joe, you have done terrific work with the space you have to work with. Your layout provides a lot of interest. You should be proud of what you have accomplished. Thank you Brian. I am indeed proud of what I have accomplished in the space I have. Of course, like many, I wish I had more room but I am happy with my layout as it is.
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Post by ptc on Dec 31, 2020 18:44:16 GMT
George, wonderful explanation of phase II of your latest layout build. You sure have an impressive space to work with and developing the historical significance is impressive.
Good work.
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