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Post by ptc on Dec 16, 2020 21:54:51 GMT
"So what would you do if you were Mike?"
Good question, Scott. Putting a consultants hat on, when a business owner loudly tells the world, "I am Done", sells his real estate, and liquidates his inventory, hard to relight the fire for anyone else. Any buyer would most assuredly face many challenges, particularly dealing with the current business climate in China and what they have done to the rest of the world. No small matter. So Mike is probably lounging on his deck with a his favorite beverage and model railroading is not tops on his reading list.
I would think it much easier and financially more feasible to start a brand new business. No buy-out or royalties to pay, and in any event, new tooling would have to be involved to be competitive. There are other manufacturing options other than China to consider and a new business owner would have no fight over who owns this tooling.
Until I learn more, I see the Mike Wolf Chapter closed.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 18, 2020 4:33:11 GMT
"So what would you do if you were Mike?"Good question, Scott. Putting a consultants hat on, when a business owner loudly tells the world, "I am Done", sells his real estate, and liquidates his inventory, hard to relight the fire for anyone else. Any buyer would most assuredly face many challenges, particularly dealing with the current business climate in China and what they have done to the rest of the world. No small matter. So Mike is probably lounging on his deck with a his favorite beverage and model railroading is not tops on his reading list. I would think it much easier and financially more feasible to start a brand new business. No buy-out or royalties to pay, and in any event, new tooling would have to be involved to be competitive. There are other manufacturing options other than China to consider and a new business owner would have no fight over who owns this tooling. Until I learn more, I see the Mike Wolf Chapter closed. Good read on the situation, Brian.
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Post by JDaddy on Dec 18, 2020 13:38:52 GMT
Honestly to speculate further. I am sure negotiations were underway before the big sell off. I think the buyer already passed on these items when purchasing the company. This would be a clue of who and where the company is being sold. It would be hard to believe a person would spend a life time to a hobby and business then turn his back and throw a match to it when its tied to his name, unless like Weaver nobody wants to continue the business, but all that tooling survived and can be found today. Even tooling on K-line rolling stock can be found today with different manufactures, and that was a complete bankruptcy. We shall see...
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Post by trainsintheattic on Dec 18, 2020 15:47:35 GMT
Other than left over inventory, intellectual property and a warehouse, what else is there of physical value to sell off when disposing of a company centered around logistics? Can tooling amount for much when it's nearing obsolescence? Is there legal sway against unauthorized manufacture and intellectual property theft in a 2021 China? Point being, where is the value in gambling on continued production? The continued support of PS3 appears to me to be all that remains.
Bruce
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 15:58:50 GMT
What is left is pretty simple... a very large empty void.
Normally where there is demand, supply will fill the void.
In this case, is there adequate demand?
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Post by chipset35 on Dec 18, 2020 18:20:24 GMT
And we as a model train community can chose to buy or not to buy those products made outside of the USA. Yes that might mean doing without that new train or whatever. But there are tons of USA made trains from various companies on the market as the older generation of model railroaders move on to the next life. We all vote/choose in one fashion or another, be it at the ballot box or with our wallets when we choose our purchases. Mike Are their new model trains made in the USA? Or are you talking about Post War Lionel? In retrospect, sometimes I wish I just stuck with good old Postwar Lionel. Save money, preserve pieces of history, as well as memories of a generation during the golden years of the USA. Leave it to Beaver and Father knows Best!
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Post by ptc on Dec 18, 2020 18:55:38 GMT
"Other than left over inventory, intellectual property and a warehouse"
Intellectual property, other than the DCS System, the Chinese probably own it.
Warehouse/Headquarters building, Mike sold that off a long time ago.
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Post by rtraincollector on Dec 18, 2020 18:57:10 GMT
And we as a model train community can chose to buy or not to buy those products made outside of the USA. Yes that might mean doing without that new train or whatever. But there are tons of USA made trains from various companies on the market as the older generation of model railroaders move on to the next life. We all vote/choose in one fashion or another, be it at the ballot box or with our wallets when we choose our purchases. Mike Are their new model trains made in the USA? Or are you talking about Post War Lionel? In retrospect, sometimes I wish I just stuck with good old Postwar Lionel. Save money, preserve pieces of history, as well as memories of a generation during the golden years of the USA. Leave it to Beaver and Father knows Best!
To me that means trains older than the year 2001 When Lionel moved to overseas. It tried Mexico for a couple of years but that was flop, as it is believed about only 50 of every 300 where sellable.
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Post by g3750 on Dec 19, 2020 20:02:00 GMT
"Other than left over inventory, intellectual property and a warehouse"
Intellectual property, other than the DCS System, the Chinese probably own it. Warehouse/Headquarters building, Mike sold that off a long time ago. I'm going to be brutally honest here. DCS really hasn't lived up to any of its claims: - It's not reliable - each layout is essentially it's own antenna requiring individual, complex tuning (all without the sophisticated instrumentation needed).
- It was supposed to be software upgradeable only and yet the TIU has gone through at least 4 h/w upgrades.
- It's not simple - a 3rd party had to write a book of spells (also in it's 4th edition) to (maybe) cure the problems.
- On the other forum you've got a PhD Electrical Engineer from Jet Propulsion Laboratory (yeah, a real live NASA rocket scientist) working on making DCS run reliably (using an oscilloscope and other sophisticated tools).
Is that a technology you would want to invest in? Not me, brother. I run trains to relax, not create problems to solve. Having said all that, if (and that's a big IF) the tooling for the Premier freight & passenger cars remains outside of China and is still in MTH's legal possession, that is an asset with value.
George
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Post by ptc on Dec 19, 2020 20:31:15 GMT
I started out with TMCC many years ago then upgraded to Legacy. Never any problems, love it for it's simplicity to install and use. So DCS going away (sort of). no issue for me.
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Post by Country Joe on Dec 19, 2020 22:13:16 GMT
I chose DCS over TMCC/Legacy for a few reasons about 4 years ago. I have had no problems with it. Since I purchased it I've updated it 2 times without issue. I hear how some people have a hard time with it and how it requires fine tuning but that hasn't been my experience. I have a friend who has TMCC and I don't care for it. Maybe that's because I don't use it enough but I find it much harder to use than DCS.
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Post by JDaddy on Dec 19, 2020 22:28:06 GMT
Honestly, I have been operating both and I have had them performing flawlessly for the past 3 years together. I sure would miss MTH. Having DCS on the layout is like opening another level of model railroading. MTH has hit some home runs and if they disappear I am sure many will rethink the hobby.
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Post by Adam on Dec 19, 2020 22:33:24 GMT
I too am a fan of DCS. Like Joe, I’ve had no problems with it and found it very easy to use and feature rich. However, I don’t have TMCC or legacy to compare it too.
If MTH indeed goes away, then at some point I may end up with Lionel command system. I do have LionChief engines as well, which I enjoy, of course.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Dec 19, 2020 23:27:01 GMT
I'm going to be brutally honest here. DCS really hasn't lived up to any of its claims: - It's not reliable - each layout is essentially it's own antenna requiring individual, complex tuning (all without the sophisticated instrumentation needed).
- It was supposed to be software upgradeable only and yet the TIU has gone through at least 4 h/w upgrades.
- It's not simple - a 3rd party had to write a book of spells (also in it's 4th edition) to (maybe) cure the problems.
- On the other forum you've got a PhD Electrical Engineer from Jet Propulsion Laboratory (yeah, a real live NASA rocket scientist) working on making DCS run reliably (using an oscilloscope and other sophisticated tools).
Is that a technology you would want to invest in? Not me, brother. I run trains to relax, not create problems to solve. Having said all that, if (and that's a big IF) the tooling for the Premier freight & passenger cars remains outside of China and is still in MTH's legal possession, that is an asset with value.
George
Geez, George, take it easy! That's the most sensationalized negative review of DCS I've ever read!
If DCS wasn't reliable it would have bit the dust a long time ago. And nobody would be taking over the product as a business. It couldn't be simpler to hook up. A bus wire from the TIU from each output and connect feeder wires from the track to the bus. Been working perfectly for me since 2004 when I first invested in DCS. As with most problems with model trains, it's usually operator error.
As for hardware upgrades, take a look around you. Everything electronic gets upgraded, even Legacy which had to be packed up and shipped to Lionel for the first upgrade. Without upgrades we'd still be riding around by horse and buggy.
The DCS Companion book wasn't written to fix problems, although it does do that (for those operator errors). It was written to highlight all the features that DCS can do if you choose to use them. I haven't needed the book honestly because it is easy enough to set up.
And who cares what a guy's profession is. It's a hobby and anyone can do whatever they want to operate their layout. There are lots of people on forums that help others from all different walks of life. There is no wrong way to enjoy model trains.
But then, none of this has anything to do with the future of MTH production.
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Post by trainsintheattic on Dec 20, 2020 2:05:21 GMT
DCS hasn't been particularly troublesome for me, as far as reliability is concerned. Signal issues due to ignoring recommended wiring practice were my only downfall. The ability to isolate minor rail continuity problems easily is a major troubleshooting tool. Not long after wiring corrections were made I found out about the end of MTH. The majority of their cars I can live without but each engine, no matter RailKing or Premier has given good value for the money.
Bruce
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