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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Oct 24, 2020 21:50:22 GMT
I bought a Lionel H16-44 (Lionel 28806) with TMCC. Everything on the engine works except there is no sound.
I swapped a working audio board from another unit and still no sound. I tried a few tests on the speaker, the sound switch and checked all the connections. Still no sounds.
Does any one have any suggestions as to what direction I can take with this engine?
Tom
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 24, 2020 22:28:24 GMT
Try looking at the obvious first. Swapping out the audio board might not not make a difference if there’s a defect in the radio or power boards but I’d look for something less serious than that first. Did you try the opposite of seeing if the audio board works in the other engine? It’s not foolproof because there are different specs/codes in these older TMCC engines but if the audio board makes any sound in the other engine it might not be defective itself.
The volume pot or settings in the CAB are often culprits. Pots in particular deteriorate and then need a shot of contact cleaner and a few twists of the knob to clean it up. Then I’d re-seat all the other boards to see if that makes better contact. Plus, are you sure you haven’t muted the sound in the CAB?
It seems that everything else is working so I think you can isolate this to the components that relate to sound.
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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Oct 25, 2020 0:35:18 GMT
Thanks for the pointers, HB. I have two of the same engine, so I will do some board swapping and try that. The pot “feels”:right but I will try a meter on it.
Thanks again. I will post results back here if I can discover anything...
Tom
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Post by dennym57 on Oct 25, 2020 1:59:47 GMT
At least your works. Mine is a Legacy and doesn't work at all. It was my first Legacy.
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 25, 2020 11:57:05 GMT
some times the speaker goes as well. I would swap out the speaker/ connector too. This is were a continuity checker comes in handy.
Second the volume pot switch. I always have a few spares in my parts box. The rheostats get dead spots on them.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 25, 2020 12:24:49 GMT
some times the speaker goes as well. I would swap out the speaker/ connector too. This is were a continuity checker comes in handy. Second the volume pot switch. I always have a few spares in my parts box. The rheostats get dead spots on them. Good points. The only other thing I can think of is that the contacts also go bad on the socket on the audio board that holds the sound chip (or, as I have recently experienced, the socket cracks). Taking out the sound chip is NOT something to be attempted without a chip puller/IC extractor tool, and even with one it’s hardly an easy exercise, but these are basically specialized types of tweezers readily available on Amazon/eBay and in most computer stores. Just taking out the chip and reseating it usually solves the problem, if that’s what it is. If all other features of this engine work then I don’t think that the radio board has gone bad but you never know. Anyway try the audio board in the engine that works and see if it is still functional. Good luck! For the knowledge base I’d be interested to know what you find.
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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Oct 25, 2020 14:27:16 GMT
Okay. I have a meter and a chip puller.
I will do the board swapping to narrow down the possible cause.
Thank you guys for the help!
Tom
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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Oct 31, 2020 21:31:07 GMT
I pulled out both of my H16-44s. I changed boards, one at a time, from the working engine to the non working loco. I found that the universal power board was not working in the failed engine. Everything else was good.
So, now I have one on order from Lionel.
I had hoped to replace the fuel tank too, but I guess I bought the last one Lionel had. The fine detail piping on the sizes is very fragile. I replaced the tank on my first H16-44 but I will have to fabricate new pipes for the old tank on the second unit that is under repair.
Thanks for the help HB and John. Your pointers have led to a good save. I appreciate that!
Tom
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Post by laz57 on Oct 31, 2020 21:39:59 GMT
Hi TOM,
Wait until next weekend to order. Lionel will have its 50% off sale on parts. Friday Saturday and Sunday.
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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Oct 31, 2020 22:33:54 GMT
Thanks George!
I knew it was coming up soon. Great timing!
I will order some R2LC boards too.
Tom
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 31, 2020 22:50:33 GMT
I pulled out both of my H16-44s. I changed boards, one at a time, from the working engine to the non working loco. I found that the universal power board was not working in the failed engine. Everything else was good. So, now I have one on order from Lionel. I had hoped to replace the fuel tank too, but I guess I bought the last one Lionel had. The fine detail piping on the sizes is very fragile. I replaced the tank on my first H16-44 but I will have to fabricate new pipes for the old tank on the second unit that is under repair. Thanks for the help HB and John. Your pointers have led to a good save. I appreciate that! Tom What I want to know is whether IT WORKS once you replace the power board. I earnestly hope it does. I have been down this road before with Lionel replacement parts. I’ll shut up now.
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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Oct 31, 2020 23:27:16 GMT
I pulled the power board out of the working engine, placed it in the problem engine, and the problem engine worked properly.
I then placed the “defective “ board into the previously working engine and it had the same issues as the defective engine. So, pretty safe bet it’s the power board at this point...
No need to shut up! Lol....
Tom
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Post by harborbelt70 on Nov 1, 2020 14:15:55 GMT
I pulled the power board out of the working engine, placed it in the problem engine, and the problem engine worked properly. I then placed the “defective “ board into the previously working engine and it had the same issues as the defective engine. So, pretty safe bet it’s the power board at this point... No need to shut up! Lol.... Tom OK, I won’t! Seems like you’ve isolated the defect to the power board. What I was thinking about is that Lionel has a generic or “universal” power board for TMCC engines of this era, which are in plentiful supply but I have found they are not always a perfect match as a replacement. It’s something to do with codes but all you can do is try out what you get and hope it’s compatible. Good luck again!
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Post by 4dogsinjersey on Nov 1, 2020 14:27:48 GMT
Oh, ok. I see what you are talking about.
The board I plan to buy is listed in the parts with the particular engine, so I guess it is good as it gets.
I am not sure how to search for any certain board on the parts page, but you have me wondering now. We will see once I get the parts and put everything together. Hopefully there won’t be any issues.
Thanks for the insight. I have so much to learn about this tmcc stuff!
Tom
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Post by harborbelt70 on Nov 1, 2020 16:13:16 GMT
You're lucky that they appear to have all of the sound and control parts for your particular engine, which doesn't always happen. The power board is the "universal" one I was thinking of:
Radio board is "C08" which is a particular spec and since (so far as I understand these things) it sends the signal to the sound components, it's a pretty important match. Fortunately there does not appear to be anything wrong with yours!
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