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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 13:19:31 GMT
As in MTH DCS vs Lionel's Legacy. Vote in the poll, list your pros and cons of each system.
Lionel Legacy pros:
Sounds, sounds and more sounds. Kills it over DCS which is getting long in the tooth.
Cruise control/momentum. Nothing like watching a Legacy engine start at a crawl and very slowly move up to selected speed.
Ease of using whistle steam or other steam effects.
Lionel Legacy con:
Smoke units. the newer ones have plastic reservoirs, like to spit up fluid no mater how much you blow down the stack
MTH DCS pros:
Smoke, smoke, smoke. Best smoking engines in the hobby
Price, lots cheaper than Legacy engines.
MTH DCS con:
Stale/old sounds. Some improvement over the years but no where as good as Legacy
Lashup of PS3 diesels. Known firmware bug. Doesn't happen with all engines but if you have two, three, etc etc in the lashup you might get one engine that locks up electronically and it burns up the PS3 board if you don't shut it down fast enough.
Momentum isn't at par with Legacy.
Ease of activating whistle steam. In a round about way using the remote or the app. Don't know why they can't fix that.
What say you? Did I miss some points? Remember no wrong answers, every one has there own likes/dislikes.
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Post by Adam on Apr 8, 2020 13:21:49 GMT
I wont vote as I cant yet compare the two. I have no Legacy (yet) and only one DCS train.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 8, 2020 13:28:23 GMT
I agree on all counts. One thing I would add is that Legacy smoke has improved in terms of pure volume since they altered the code on the AC-9 smoke units. With older ones you have to try and find the sweet spot in terms of settings, including EFX, and how much fluid to use.
My only other specific point is also about smoke. Both Lionel and MTH have messed around with the settings to produce more "prototypical" output, in particular on diesels. L-M-H was good enough for me.
More generally, there's much more innovation, or attempts at it, with Lionel Legacy including VL models. Just too much "recycling" with MTH stuff.
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Post by dennym57 on Apr 8, 2020 13:29:56 GMT
I don't own any MTH locos, but this is the year I'm going to give it a go. As far as Legacy smoke, I've done some work on the smoke units and they smoke much better now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 13:39:42 GMT
I like MTH can program easier. In my opinion DCS remote is easier to use than Lionels or the wifi is even easier.
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Post by ptc on Apr 8, 2020 13:47:18 GMT
I agree with Adam, it would not be a fair comparison of me as I only use Legacy. So, no vote.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 14:31:11 GMT
I voted for Lionel. Clearly the features are better, although much reduced, and with two caveats:
1. The price difference is tremendous
2. Lionel is completely undependable
We love what Lionel used to be. Now we favor MTH when appropriate and especially SUNSET. That said, we just bought two Js with Harry’s recommendation.
I think Sunset should be included in the poll. Scott makes beautiful equipment and it is worth every penny. I prefer that over gimmicks that may not work, generic voices, and loose screws, mismatched paint, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 14:32:29 GMT
I don't own any MTH locos, but this is the year I'm going to give it a go. As far as Legacy smoke, I've done some work on the smoke units and they smoke much better now. Go for it Denny. I think that you will be very pleased.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 14:33:15 GMT
I voted for Lionel. Clearly the features are better, although much reduced, and with two caveats: 1. The price difference is tremendous 2. Lionel is completely undependable We love what Lionel used to be. Now we favor MTH when appropriate and especially SUNSET. That said, we just bought two Js with Harry’s recommendation. I think Sunset should be included in the poll. Scott makes beautiful equipment and it is worth every penny. I prefer that over gimmicks that may not work, generic voices, and loose screws, mismatched paint, etc. This is a operating system comparison, so I didn't include Atlas, Weaver, or 3rdrail which all run on the older TMCC platform.
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Post by Country Joe on Apr 8, 2020 15:25:45 GMT
I voted DCS. I only have DCS, but I investigated both Legacy and DCS before buying so my preference isn't just that I have one and not the other. My reasons for preferring DCS are:
Legacy is 3 rail scale only. 3 rail O gauge are, to me, the trains I had in the 1950s. They are semi-scale toys, not scale models. If I wanted O scale I would go 2 rail. The O gauge trains I fell in love with were toys. My layout, in my mind, is an idealized 1950s toy train layout. It has all the features I wish were available when I was a boy. MTH Railking, especially Imperial engines, are perfect for me. Lionel doesn't make anything comparable. This is the biggest reason that I don't have and don't want Legacy.
Lionel does make Lionmaster engines with TMCC, and the new, yet to be seen, LionChief Plus 2.0 engines will also be TMCC, but while these engines are of greater interest to me they are considerably more expensive than Railking Imperial engines. I see no reason to buy from Lionel's limited offering of traditional semi-scale locomotives when MTH offers many more choices of wonderful PS3 locomotives at much better prices.
It is my perception that Lionel markets to high end buyers and considers us traditional guys to be of less importance. They cater to the guys willing to spend $1000 and more on locomotives and throw an occasional grossly overpriced bone to us traditional guys.
I'm sorry to say it but Lionel doesn't offer much to guys like me so there is no Legacy for me now nor in the foreseeable future. I'm DCS all the way.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 8, 2020 15:38:41 GMT
CJ is absolutely right that nobody can ignore pricing but I will say (again) that the street/main dealer prices for Lionel Legacy products are way below their objectionable catalog prices. They must be carrying on with the inflated MSRPs for some business reason that I just don't understand.
Operating feature sets (in no particular order smoke, lights and sound) matter to me and on that score Lionel's OS is ahead.
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Post by josef on Apr 8, 2020 17:28:51 GMT
For me, I'm 110% satisfied with MTH and voted accordingly. Its easy for me to set an engine on track without setting a program switch, etc. It finds the engine and it's in the system. I can latch-up engines easier. I have legacy also, but look to MTH for varies reasons, one being cost. I've had less problems with MTH engines then Lionel and have always had no problem getting someone on the phone at MTH to walk me through a problem. Can't say same for Lionel. Also had a missing horn on an mTH engine within a week received 2 replacements. Bought a legacy engine new several years back that had a missing bell. Lionel was out of stock but would be sending one as soon as available, still waiting, (though I purchased a replacement through a parts place recommended that was an exact fix).
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Post by Craignor on Apr 8, 2020 17:55:21 GMT
I have both, there are things that I like and don’t like about each, I wish there was a choice of both. Until then, I can’t vote.
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Post by JDaddy on Apr 8, 2020 20:10:56 GMT
Programing is easier with a Lionel... MTH train on track, and trying to find an engine gets frustrating. Also noted when we get together for our shows. The complete layout will have to be shut off to find and address a new locomotive. Also issues with the latest variable input / output connections have caused Legacy and TMCC engines not to work. The fixed channels are more robust. I will not vote because, I like some of the MTH models better. Sounds are improving, but yes they have a long way to go to meet with the Lionel equivalent.
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Post by JKP on Apr 8, 2020 20:45:11 GMT
I only use only Legacy so I'm not going to vote, when I do a new layout I may add DCS.
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