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Post by chuffinguy on Nov 9, 2024 18:08:11 GMT
Hello to all,
My first thread since joining. We have a local train show coming up in a week (Kansas City Expo Center). I'll be looking for a tinplate loco and rolling stock for my postwar O-27 tubular layout. A thread on another forum mentioned Lionel 259E and 263E as good choices for O-27 curves. What are your recommendations?
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Post by healey36 on Nov 9, 2024 21:55:56 GMT
Two ends of the spectrum there...the 259/259E had a long production run and was made in numerous variations and large numbers, a sheet-metal frame, hence not too expensive. The 263E and its predecessors is quite a bit larger, features a cast frame and a Vanderbilt-style tender, hence it is quite a bit more expensive, maybe three times the cost of an original 259/259E. MTH made a reproduction of the 263E that is very nice, but also pricey.
Another option is the 249/249E or 262/262E, a steamer that falls between the two above. More expensive than a 259/259E, but typically less than the larger 263E. It too has a cast frame, and MTH made a reproduction version as well.
If you're only building one prewar Lionel tinplate steam set, I'd go for the larger 260E/263E. It's an impressive piece of gear. However, if buying an original, make sure it's in good physical and mechanical condition as repairs can be expensive.
One other thing to consider and one I can't answer - will the 263E negotiate an O-27 curve? I'm not sure. It will be tight if it can, and may look a bit ungainly.
That's my two cents.
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Post by rtraincollector on Nov 9, 2024 23:21:55 GMT
it's a 2-4-2 so it should unless it is classified as O gauge and have the large flans wheel. Whit some other looking I believe it is O gauge so it would need O gauge track ( because it would require the taller rails.)
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Post by chuffinguy on Nov 11, 2024 2:35:19 GMT
Thanks for the input. Agree...additional research on my part confirms the 260E/263E, given the larger size, may not be the best choice for O-27 curves. 261/262E would be the better choice, being similar in size to the 259 series.
On 259s, are the red marker lights and number plate on boiler illuminated? I've seen eBay listings and YouTube videos both illuminated and not illuminated when running.
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Post by healey36 on Nov 11, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
Okay, as far as lighting goes, the bulb in the 259/259E might be the hardest working lamp in all of Lionel's prewar locomotives. It provides light for the headlight, the green (or red) marker lamps, the number board, and the red smokebox glow from the stack. Here's a pic:  For the price, you really can't go wrong with a nice original 259/259E. Being designed and sold as O-gauge (not O-27), they look best (IMHO) hauling 800-series O-gauge four-wheel freights, 600/2600-series O-gauge eight-wheel freights, and the 603-604 or 607-608 O-gauge passenger cars. For me, the O-27 and the larger O-gauge freight and passenger cars don't match up well visually (although they will work). The 259/259E came in numerous variations. The 259 typically featured a manual reverse lever, the 259E the four-position E-unit. Numerous different tenders, starting with a four-wheel version early on, followed by an eight-wheel, then ending production with an O-27 coffin-style eight-wheel tender. There may be other tender variations out there. The early versions of the loco/tender were black with copper trim; later versions included gun-metal paint as well as black, and trim moved to nickel plating. The often disparaged stamped metal frame of the 259/259E has one big advantage - you never have to worry about zinc-pest that occasionally destroys the cast frames of its larger brethren. Only the drive wheels here run the risk of zinc-pest. When shopping for one, I would look for the following. Make sure it is complete, i.e. has all of its drive and connecting rods, has both its two-wheel pilot truck and two-wheel pony truck, and make sure it has both of its roller contacts and they are in decent condition. Look for drive wheels that don't show cracking/crumbling of zinc-rot. Make sure the E-unit lever on the 259E moves freely (but not too freely). If you have access to a test track, make sure the E-unit cycles properly. The light-bulb is easily replaceable, so if that doesn't light, not too onerous to replace. And make sure you get a tender...finding the right replacement can be tedious and expensive. So that's it...get out there and find yourself a nice one. And just remember, some kid almost certainly received it for Christmas during those tough Depression years, a major gift from his parents or grandparents that likely sent him out of his mind when he first saw it.  |
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Post by af3020 on Nov 12, 2024 2:27:46 GMT
I'll second everything Healey36 said about the 259E engine. I've added some pictures just to give you some side-by-side comparisons with respect to the various types of cars. With the smaller freight series mentioned by Healey36  With the larger 800 series freights  and with the litho series of larger freights - this being a 1938 Lionel set  |
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Post by healey36 on Nov 12, 2024 3:06:46 GMT
I always forget those 1700-series litho freights (former Ives products). They look humongous compared to the 259E, but still a terrific set nonetheless. Thanks for the comps, af.
Someone mentioned a 290E set here recently...looked it up. A gunmetal 259E, a 651 flat, 654 tank (Sunoco), and a 657 caboose. Sounds like a nice combination to run under the Christmas tree.
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Post by chuffinguy on Nov 12, 2024 18:07:06 GMT
Thanks to healey36 and af3020 for providing the visuals. A 259/259E has risen to the top of my wanted list. Thankfully they are reasonably common and affordable. As you say, finding a good unit will be key. Also on the lookout for a 675/2025 with aluminum stack and Baldwin Discs.
I'm currently a seasonal hobbyist. Here's a pic of my 2056 with 2400 series passenger cars sitting on a spur, awaiting dispatch to the Christmas tree loop. Setting up the temporary layout puts me in the holiday spirit.
Healey36, I have several friends who vintage race Bugeye and Box Sprites. I've owned a few Triumph street cars over the years but went a different route when racing...Datsun 240Z, Mazda RX7, and a Formula Ford. Current street car is a Lotus. Thankfully Lionel did not utilize Lucas electronics back in the day.  Attachments:
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Post by healey36 on Nov 12, 2024 21:12:01 GMT
A very nice 2056 there...would look terrific circling the tree. Chuff, my brothers and I have owned a long line of roadsters going back years. I grew to be partial to the Spridget (MG Midget/Austin Healey Sprite), and having gradually wiped out the fleet, the last one we have is a '67 Sprite (well we have a '71 MG-B as well, but that's a bit less sporting than the Spridget IMHO).  A pretty normal shot - hood up with me somewhere close by on the cell |
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Post by rtraincollector on Nov 12, 2024 21:43:06 GMT
I will say in the past had both a 262E and a 1688E the 1688E went like a bullet but both were good pullers. What I have now would not help you. ( Standard Gauge 400E )
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Post by healey36 on Nov 13, 2024 0:00:02 GMT
A 259/259E has risen to the top of my wanted list. Thankfully they are reasonably common and affordable. As you say, finding a good unit will be key. Good luck with the search!
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Post by eddieg on Nov 13, 2024 0:22:59 GMT
What about a 224E or 225E.
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Post by eddieg on Nov 13, 2024 0:25:17 GMT
Healey36, The 2056 is post war.
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Post by healey36 on Nov 13, 2024 1:12:57 GMT
Healey36, The 2056 is post war. Yup...
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Post by chuffinguy on Nov 13, 2024 2:44:46 GMT
Healey 36,
Very clean and straight box Sprite, in the proper British Racing Green no less. Points on for retaining the stock steel wheels and resisting the temptation to bolt on Minilites.
Here's my last TR6 and the race-prepped Datsun. I had seller's remorse for years letting both go.
We should get back to trains and off cars before we get reprimanded by the moderator!
Being a postwar child with postwar trains, I'm looking forward to adding some tinplate. The nostalgia is what appeals to me. As you say, the joy of the kid and the sacrifice of his parents for purchasing a Lionel set during the Great Depression has significance. If only these trains could talk. What a story they could tell!
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