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Post by superwarp1 on Oct 20, 2024 19:59:08 GMT
Watch to the end.
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Post by david1 on Oct 20, 2024 20:44:27 GMT
This is really concerning, this is something that the Eastern division has to get a handle on. No one should ever be treated by a contractor of security the way Mr Muffin has stated.
Also beings this goes back to other show tells me that the Eastern division does not have a handle on it. What the heck is going on!!
Dave
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Post by superwarp1 on Oct 20, 2024 21:34:33 GMT
I should mention there’s always two sides of the story but I’ll doubt we’ll ever hear it. Eastern division needs to handle this and fast. York doesn’t need to be chasing away venders if true
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Post by MartyE on Oct 20, 2024 21:44:15 GMT
I should mention there’s always two sides of the story but I’ll doubt we’ll ever hear it. Eastern division needs to handle this and fast. York doesn’t need to be chasing away venders if true I'm certain there is more truth to this than not. It's no coincidence that Lionel, TrainWorld, Mr. Muffin and others are all out. Yes I'm sure there are 2 sides of this but given some of what Steve related and knowing some of the players, I tend to think he's justified.
I believe Neely was the Hall Captain. It certainly doesn't bode well if you can calmly communicate the rules.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 20, 2024 21:47:28 GMT
This is not a unique situation with rent a cops/security. And while Mr. Muffin is justifiably angry there may be a subplot which may have made his decision not to return to York inevitable in any event.
Those who listen to Mr. Muffin's live stream each Friday at 6:00 PM eastern time are aware that Mr. Muffin is starting his own train show which is next weekend. He stated that he was cutting back on what he was bringing to York because his children were busy preparing for his show next weekend.
It is ironic that I mentioned to someone early last week that it would not surprise me that Mr. Muffin would not be coming to York too much longer if his show took off.
The episode with the rent a cops may have given Mr. Muffin plausible deniability that he was not coming back because of the demands of his show.
I am not criticizing Mr. Muffin or insinuating that he is being disingenuous. Mr. Muffin is a standup guy and terrific ambassador of the train hobby as I have stated before.
As for the circumstances described, this Mr. Neely if he is a Hall Captain should be relieved of duty as it is one thing to go by the letter of the rules and quite another to perform to the spirit of the rules to which Mr. Muffin appears to have complied.
But think about it dispassionately in the era of internet sales why would you drive 11 hours one way to exhibit anywhere?
Very unfortunate all around for all concerned.
It may be ironic with all the talk of the future of York, that it may return to its' roots as a TCA member swap meet with local/regional dealer participation in a much smaller venue.
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Post by dlagrua on Oct 20, 2024 23:34:29 GMT
I've always believed that Steve Nelson is a good and decent man. Still do. To have him treated badly by the ED's Keystone Cops at the Orange Hall is deplorable and cannot be tolerated. My affiliation with TCA and ED ended 10 years ago when attending York was no longer necessary. Supporting my hobby without the ED is no problem. They do nothing for me so being pushed around by overzealous security as they did to good guy Steve is something for all to avoid.
Apparently Lionel and the large dealers feel the same way. While a smaller meet, ATMA services all my needs and it being run by nice folks that don't bust chops. Between Allentown and OGF all the needs are filled for many.
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Post by Adam on Oct 20, 2024 23:45:37 GMT
Wow!
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 20, 2024 23:52:17 GMT
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. If Mr. Neeley did go rogue is that the fault of the ED management? It hardly seems reasonable or fair unless said Mr. Neeley was known to have had a pattern of behavior which warranted discipline or removal. I do not believe that Lionel , Trainworld or anyone else for that matter is not exhibiting/selling at York because of Mr. Neeley or his predecessors. That seems to me to be too simplistic an explanation.
It is far more likely that simple economics are the decision why anyone decides to exhibit or sell at York. In the case of Mr. Muffin Mr. Neeley may have been the last straw after a long tiring several days and his sales results over the last several York events. That and Mr. Muffin is trying his hand at his own train show next weekend. This dust up may have been the last straw for Mr. Muffin for whom I have the highest regard and respect.
I continue to pay dues to the TCA in order to support the hobby as to my knowledge TCA is the last national hobbyist organization to support/nurture the O gauge train hobby. Does TCA do anything for me? Not in the conventional sense but for $50.00 annual dues, what exactly am I expecting for them to do for me personally? Other than being able to access York on Thursday I don't believe that thought ever entered my mind.
Is support of ATMA a mutually exclusive proposition to supporting TCA/York? If so the logic escapes me unless it is a matter of physical proximity to either Allentown or York.
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Post by MartyE on Oct 21, 2024 0:11:05 GMT
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. If Mr. Neeley did go rogue is that the fault of the ED management? It hardly seems reasonable or fair unless said Mr. Neeley was known to have had a pattern of behavior which warranted discipline or removal. I do not believe that Lionel , Trainworld or anyone else for that matter is not exhibiting/selling at York because of Mr. Neeley. That seems to me to be too simplistic an explanation. It is far more likely that simple economics are the decision why anyone decides to exhibit or sell at York. In the case of Mr. Muffin Mr. Neeley may have been the last straw after a long tiring several days and his sales results over the last several York events. That and Mr. Muffin is trying his hand at his own train show next weekend. This dust up may have been the last straw for Mr. Muffin for whom I have the highest regard and respect. I continue to pay dues to the TCA in order to support the hobby as to my knowledge TCA is the last national hobbyist organization to support/nurture the O gauge train hobby. Does TCA do anything for me? Not in the conventional sense but for $50.00 annual dues, what exactly am I expecting for them to do for me personally? Other than being able to access York on Thursday I don't believe that thought ever entered my mind. Is support of ATMA a mutually exclusive proposition to supporting TCA/York? If so the logic escapes me unless it is a matter of physical proximity to either Allentown or York. I never said Neely was the cause of the others. There seems to be other factors besides economic driving these decisions by some of the vendors. The EDTCA would be wise to at least be willing to listen and adjust if they can if there are other issues.
Lou Palumbo was Hall Captain when Lionel left. In my opinion the Hall Captain should be a voice of reason and calm. Again I wasn't there so I have no idea what transpired other than what Steve commented on in his video.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 21, 2024 0:16:03 GMT
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. If Mr. Neeley did go rogue is that the fault of the ED management? It hardly seems reasonable or fair unless said Mr. Neeley was known to have had a pattern of behavior which warranted discipline or removal. I do not believe that Lionel , Trainworld or anyone else for that matter is not exhibiting/selling at York because of Mr. Neeley. That seems to me to be too simplistic an explanation. It is far more likely that simple economics are the decision why anyone decides to exhibit or sell at York. In the case of Mr. Muffin Mr. Neeley may have been the last straw after a long tiring several days and his sales results over the last several York events. That and Mr. Muffin is trying his hand at his own train show next weekend. This dust up may have been the last straw for Mr. Muffin for whom I have the highest regard and respect. I continue to pay dues to the TCA in order to support the hobby as to my knowledge TCA is the last national hobbyist organization to support/nurture the O gauge train hobby. Does TCA do anything for me? Not in the conventional sense but for $50.00 annual dues, what exactly am I expecting for them to do for me personally? Other than being able to access York on Thursday I don't believe that thought ever entered my mind. Is support of ATMA a mutually exclusive proposition to supporting TCA/York? If so the logic escapes me unless it is a matter of physical proximity to either Allentown or York. I never said Neely was the cause of the others. There seems to be other factors besides economic driving these decisions by some of the vendors. The EDTCA would be wise to at least be willing to listen and adjust if they can if there are other issues.
Lou Palumbo was Hall Captain when Lionel left. In my opinion the Hall Captain should be a voice of reason and calm. Again I wasn't there so I have no idea what transpired other than what Steve commented on in his video.
Nor did I. The operative word was if. Let's not inundate Mr. Neeley with hate mail and threats! As to the rest of your post we are in complete agreement.
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 21, 2024 0:32:54 GMT
So Mr. Muffin's filmed Orange hall and interviewed and promoted the hobby with a great big smile on his face. And then after the fact, said he will not be back again? I doubt that.
Mr. Muffin's is A VERY STAND-UP individual. I always liked him, and he does have a warm heart and IS such a giving person. I have not found any hobby shop that promotes the train hobby like him.
I am sure he was embarrassed by the incident and didn't appreciate Mr. Neely for his public tirade. I remember being chased by Mr. Neeley across orange hall as he was shouting at me to stop! all because my badge was not face up. Honestly?!
I know Mr. Muffins said in April that he was not coming back to York due to economics so what made him change his mind? The love of trains. I am going next weekend to his show, and I will have to get the truth.
Honestly wouldn't mind if only sellers came to the meet. There would be less price fixing.
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Post by BobS2056 on Oct 21, 2024 1:10:33 GMT
The end of the video has a bad look on York in my opinion
Bob
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Post by curtis on Oct 21, 2024 4:10:09 GMT
I can tell you that There was a shouting match and I for one was embarrassed to be standing in the vicinity. It was NOT Mr muffin doing the yelling. A customer simply wanted to ask a simple question and the fellow turned and yelled he was a $17000 person and DO NOT CUT IN! That was on Friday. I will give Steve credit because he remained calm and cool and has always tried to promote the hobby.
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Post by superwarp1 on Oct 21, 2024 4:34:47 GMT
The video has been removed and Steve has reposted with out the comments at the end
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Post by Traindiesel! on Oct 21, 2024 4:53:17 GMT
I missed seeing the comments at the end of the video and I didn’t witness what happened, but I wonder if this incident was a continuation or in addition to the dust up Steve had back in April. It happened early on Thursday back in April that had Steve packing up to leave just after the doors opened, but the issue was eventually resolved. I heard some of the issue but not enough to remember the details. I believe it was badge related.
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