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Post by josef on Jul 21, 2024 19:01:28 GMT
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Post by dlagrua on Jul 21, 2024 20:08:21 GMT
Its a shame that the Williams line was discontinued but when Menards jumped into the lower end of the market,they took charge. IMO, Bachman noticing the sharply lower prices, decided to pull out. The budget conventional market is now dominated by Menards but Williams manufactured far more than Menards does. MY guess is that Williams is now finished with O gauge products.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 21, 2024 20:38:36 GMT
Its a shame that the Williams line was discontinued but when Menards jumped into the lower end of the market,they took charge. IMO, Bachman noticing the sharply lower prices, decided to pull out. The budget conventional market is now dominated by Menards but Williams manufactured far more than Menards does. MY guess is that Williams is now finished with O gauge products. K- Line did it to themselves. They undercut their own prices and were bleeding money. And the final blow was antagonizing Lionel . Everybody love cheap pricing for their trains and until your bargain bin train company disappears overnight!
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Post by david1 on Jul 21, 2024 22:05:43 GMT
K-line did do it to themselves because Maury Kline could not keep his big mouth shut. After the court case was settled and Lionel not wanting to put K-line out of business Maury decided to put out memo declaring that K-line was not at fault for anything. Well this outraged Lionel who went back to court and the court agreed with Lionel and basically K-line was put out of business. Maury Kline was his own worst enemy. If you ever dealt with him at a train show or any place else you would know how volatile he was.
Dave
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Post by dlagrua on Jul 21, 2024 22:28:48 GMT
I believe K-Line went out of business because they infringed on Lionel patents and an employee was caught with confidential Lionel build documents. K-Line also did not have the financial backing of Wall Street and was in no position to fight extended court battles. Its really a shame as K-Line made some really great products They were affordable and run on my layout to this day.
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Post by josef on Jul 21, 2024 22:52:10 GMT
Whatever one may think or say, it was K Line, Williams, and Weaver that got me into O. It was the best of times, at least for me. K Line made some outstanding scale models that to this day still outshine many others. Their Berkshire and Hudsons not only stand out in details, etc, but can run on smaller radius then Lionel.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 22, 2024 1:25:38 GMT
Whatever one may think or say, it was K Line, Williams, and Weaver that got me into O. It was the best of times, at least for me. K Line made some outstanding scale models that to this day still outshine many others. Their Berkshire and Hudsons not only stand out in details, etc, but can run on smaller radius then Lionel. They are both gone… one of the reasons why is that their low prices were unsustainable.
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Post by superwarp1 on Jul 22, 2024 1:37:35 GMT
Boy do I miss Weaver and K Line, those were the days
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Post by david1 on Jul 22, 2024 2:12:50 GMT
Williams will still be in business if Bachmann didn't think they knew better and Kept doing what Jerry Williams did!! K-LINE would be in business if they took the opening that Lionel gave them during the lawsuit. Maury Kline just could not hold his temper!!
So today we have to pay for the stupidity of two businesses who thought they knew better. Lionel and Mth to a lesser degree Mth now are the ones setting the prices to a degree of our trains. We are all being held hostage and in my opinion because in 5-10 years neither will be in business as a result of their own greed. Buy them now boys because soon it will all be going away.
Guess Menards may be the only one standing!!
Dave
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Post by josef on Jul 22, 2024 9:48:06 GMT
Whatever one may think or say, it was K Line, Williams, and Weaver that got me into O. It was the best of times, at least for me. K Line made some outstanding scale models that to this day still outshine many others. Their Berkshire and Hudsons not only stand out in details, etc, but can run on smaller radius then Lionel. They are both gone… one of the reasons why is that their low prices were unsustainable. I thought you wrote earlier it ws infringement and bragging that killed K Line? It was retirement and selling to Bachman that killed Williams. Can't have it both ways, was it low selling prices, or Lionels lawsuit that killed K Line? ![???](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ?
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Post by superwarp1 on Jul 22, 2024 11:33:17 GMT
They are both gone… one of the reasons why is that their low prices were unsustainable. I thought you wrote earlier it ws infringement and bragging that killed K Line? It was retirement and selling to Bachman that killed Williams. Can't have it both ways, was it low selling prices, or Lionels lawsuit that killed K Line? ![???](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Kline wasn't that cheap. My Kline Berks were just over 600 bucks without cruise and a fan driven smoke unit in the early 2000's. I would say inline with what you would get from Weaver at the time. It was the stealing of patents from Lionel that did K-Line in. Weaver gone because the owner wanted to retire and didn't get any buyers.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 22, 2024 11:54:44 GMT
They are both gone… one of the reasons why is that their low prices were unsustainable. I thought you wrote earlier it ws infringement and bragging that killed K Line? It was retirement and selling to Bachman that killed Williams. Can't have it both ways, was it low selling prices, or Lionels lawsuit that killed K Line? ![???](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? If you read my post: I clearly say ONE of the reasons K-Line failed was because of K-Lines ridiculous low prices. They sacrificed profitability in an effort to build market share. The other reason is they pissed off Lionel in the lawsuit resolution. K-Line was in terrible financial shape when Lionel took them back to court and K-Line was no shape to recover from that. I don’t know where you got the idea that K-Line could have only one cause for failure. And yes, I am making a point by example of how some people have unrealistic expectations of prices in the toy train market. Do you want high tech scale trains and viable train manufacturers, well there is a price to be paid for that. If you want inexpensive trains and don’t care that they are not scale and are willing to accept that they run just okay and look okay, well you can by Menards by the box. An. O, I am not putting down Menards, they have their place in the market as well.
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Post by josef on Jul 22, 2024 12:10:12 GMT
I thought you wrote earlier it ws infringement and bragging that killed K Line? It was retirement and selling to Bachman that killed Williams. Can't have it both ways, was it low selling prices, or Lionels lawsuit that killed K Line? ![???](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Kline wasn't that cheap. My Kline Berks were just over 600 bucks without cruise and a fan driven smoke unit in the early 2000's. I would say inline with what you would get from Weaver at the time. It was the stealing of patents from Lionel that did K-Line in. Weaver gone because the owner wanted to retire and didn't get any buyers. WOW! I paid 359.00 for my Berkshire and 389.00 for my Hudson. New! I just sold my Bershire last week and now thinking of selling my Hudson. Thinking going Diesel with just a switcher and 2-8-0 as my only steamers I'm keeping. Have a guy picking up my 4-6-0 tomorrow.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 22, 2024 12:13:19 GMT
Kline wasn't that cheap. My Kline Berks were just over 600 bucks without cruise and a fan driven smoke unit in the early 2000's. I would say inline with what you would get from Weaver at the time. It was the stealing of patents from Lionel that did K-Line in. Weaver gone because the owner wanted to retire and didn't get any buyers. WOW! I paid 359.00 for my Berkshire and 389.00 for my Hudson. New! I just sold my Bershire last week and now thinking of selling my Hudson. Thinking going Diesel with just a switcher and 2-8-0 as my only steamers I'm keeping. Have a guy picking up my 4-6-0 tomorrow. Do you think that K-Line made money on your $359 Berkshire and $389 Hudson?
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Post by josef on Jul 22, 2024 12:28:56 GMT
WOW! I paid 359.00 for my Berkshire and 389.00 for my Hudson. New! I just sold my Bershire last week and now thinking of selling my Hudson. Thinking going Diesel with just a switcher and 2-8-0 as my only steamers I'm keeping. Have a guy picking up my 4-6-0 tomorrow. Do you think that K-Line made money on your $359 Berkshire and $389 Hudson? LOL. Sit back and enjoy a cup of Java and don't worry about it.
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