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Post by madockawando on Jul 23, 2024 15:25:33 GMT
So everyone misses blowouts and a glut of trains . I would rather have a stable train market with healthy dealers and manufacturers. Does MTH glut the market with trains? Where are the MTH blowouts?
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Post by david1 on Jul 23, 2024 20:41:47 GMT
Can't say if MTH ever had a blow out. The ones I remember are Lionel, Williams, K-line and some smaller producers of freight cars and the like.
Dave
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Post by madockawando on Jul 24, 2024 5:10:28 GMT
Can't say if MTH ever had a blow out. The ones I remember are Lionel, Williams, K-line and some smaller producers of freight cars and the like. Dave So MTH didn’t have blow outs and they are still here. The other companies that did hav blow outs are gone with the exception of Lionel who hasn’t had blowouts in years. Coincidence? I think not. |
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Post by Country Joe on Jul 24, 2024 15:36:01 GMT
Williams is still here. Jerry Williams sold the company to Bachmann so he could retire. K-Line didn’t go under because of finances. Stealing technology and then blowing what would have been a decent settlement did them in. Your theory of joining blowouts and bankruptcy doesn’t fit the facts.
BTO is fine for people with deep pockets but excludes the vast majority of O gaugers. You think it’s good because you can afford it.
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Post by madockawando on Jul 24, 2024 20:28:00 GMT
Williams is still here. Jerry Williams sold the company to Bachmann so he could retire. K-Line didn’t go under because of finances. Stealing technology and then blowing what would have been a decent settlement did them in. Your theory of joining blowouts and bankruptcy doesn’t fit the facts.
BTO is fine for people with deep pockets but excludes the vast majority of O gaugers. You think it’s good because you can afford it. Williams exists as a name only, you might as well claim American Flyer still exists. K-Line's pricing strategy was bleeding the company drive. The lawsuit was the final deathblow to a very financially weak. Blowouts will never come back because it makes no business sense to the manufactures and dealers that are left. Perhaps you can buy some Atlas trains on blowout... oh wait...
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Post by david1 on Jul 24, 2024 21:22:44 GMT
I did not say I wanted blow outs I just said THERE WERE SOME BLOW OUTS some years ago. MFGS never want to have blow outs because of over production!!!
But the BTO way of manufacturing only limits who you sell to. It leaves out the people in the middle because prices are too high. When the mfg sell more copies of what they are building means the price per item becomes cheaper to sell.
Its a fine line of building enough to sell out or building too much that requires you sell the leftovers at a cheaper price.
The BTO limits who you sell to Plain and simple!!!!
How many items that you buy is BTO, not many!!
Dave
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Post by frankmulligan on Jul 25, 2024 14:15:05 GMT
I miss the old days of going into a local dealer and never knowing what I might find. So much more exciting than just preordering.
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Post by Country Joe on Jul 25, 2024 19:21:44 GMT
Williams is still here. Jerry Williams sold the company to Bachmann so he could retire. K-Line didn’t go under because of finances. Stealing technology and then blowing what would have been a decent settlement did them in. Your theory of joining blowouts and bankruptcy doesn’t fit the facts.
BTO is fine for people with deep pockets but excludes the vast majority of O gaugers. You think it’s good because you can afford it. Williams exists as a name only, you might as well claim American Flyer still exists. K-Line's pricing strategy was bleeding the company drive. The lawsuit was the final deathblow to a very financially weak. Blowouts will never come back because it makes no business sense to the manufactures and dealers that are left. Perhaps you can buy some Atlas trains on blowout... oh wait...
You are defending Lionel’s limited production and high prices because you can afford it and don’t mind paying high prices for what you want. It’s all good for you but what about the vast majority of O gaugers who can’t afford Lionel? How is shutting out most of the hobbyists good for the hobby?
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Post by madockawando on Jul 26, 2024 1:56:02 GMT
Williams exists as a name only, you might as well claim American Flyer still exists. K-Line's pricing strategy was bleeding the company drive. The lawsuit was the final deathblow to a very financially weak. Blowouts will never come back because it makes no business sense to the manufactures and dealers that are left. Perhaps you can buy some Atlas trains on blowout... oh wait...
You are defending Lionel’s limited production and high prices because you can afford it and don’t mind paying high prices for what you want. It’s all good for you but what about the vast majority of O gaugers who can’t afford Lionel? How is shutting out most of the hobbyists good for the hobby? Why are you so fixated on Lionel? MTH and Atlas also utilize the BTO. Why not complain about them? |
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Post by Traindiesel! on Jul 26, 2024 7:43:25 GMT
Here’s the thing. When MTH , Atlas, Weaver, K-Line, Williams and Lionel were all churning out products and competing with each other prices were moderated. There was competition. Competition breeds price wars and the occasional blowout to make room for the next big thing. The methods and approaches for each importer were different.
But now Mike Wolf, Joe Hayter and Jerry Williams retired or sold their tooling and K-Line blew themselves up. Atlas O regressed. The result? Lionel charging $125 for a caboose. No one to challenge them. So although they make beautiful stuff, sometimes the value isn’t there even though we may be able to afford it.
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Post by trainman9 on Jul 26, 2024 13:33:32 GMT
I did not say I wanted blow outs I just said THERE WERE SOME BLOW OUTS some years ago. MFGS never want to have blow outs because of over production!!! But the BTO way of manufacturing only limits who you sell to. It leaves out the people in the middle because prices are too high. When the mfg sell more copies of what they are building means the price per item becomes cheaper to sell. Its a fine line of building enough to sell out or building too much that requires you sell the leftovers at a cheaper price. The BTO limits who you sell to Plain and simple!!!! How many items that you buy is BTO, not many!! Dave My four Lionel steamers and one diesel were all BTO.
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Post by josef on Jul 26, 2024 14:17:18 GMT
I did not say I wanted blow outs I just said THERE WERE SOME BLOW OUTS some years ago. MFGS never want to have blow outs because of over production!!! But the BTO way of manufacturing only limits who you sell to. It leaves out the people in the middle because prices are too high. When the mfg sell more copies of what they are building means the price per item becomes cheaper to sell. Its a fine line of building enough to sell out or building too much that requires you sell the leftovers at a cheaper price. The BTO limits who you sell to Plain and simple!!!! How many items that you buy is BTO, not many!! Dave My four Lionel steamers and one diesel were all BTO. I can say that every steam, Diesel, and rolling stock I own, were off the shelf purchases. Problem free and no waiting a year or longer to get them on the track. I remember times were I ordered a new car and it would be delivered in 2 to 4 weeks from the factory. But waiting for a toy 6 months to over a year to be delivered and wondering if it will run, is the paint job correct, etc. no way.
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Post by Country Joe on Jul 27, 2024 14:58:54 GMT
Williams does still exist as does American Flyer, but neither brand’s current level of production has anything to do with close out sales which is your premise.
You are defending Lionel’s limited production and high prices because you can afford it and don’t mind paying high prices for what you want. It’s all good for you but what about the vast majority of O gaugers who can’t afford Lionel? How is shutting out most of the hobbyists good for the hobby? Why are you so fixated on Lionel? MTH and Atlas also utilize the BTO. Why not complain about them? Lionel is the big dog in the O gauge hobby. They set the tone for the hobby as a whole. Atlas and MTH are small potatoes by comparison. Lionel started BTO to maximize profits by selling very high end products at very high prices in limited quantities to rich men. This is fine for Lionel and their high end customers but leaves the average O gauge enthusiasts out in the cold. This is not good for the future of the hobby. Atlas is a very small part of the O gauge hobby right now though that will probably change. They will be competing with Lionel for the high end consumer. MTH’s Railking line isn’t cheap, is not BTO, but is a much better value for the vast majority of O gaugers.
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Post by dlagrua on Jul 27, 2024 19:29:02 GMT
Bottom line; Lionel is still selling out their product runs so the assumption that can be made is that the prices are too low. Perhaps that is not good for the hobbyist on a budget but for the small niche market that Lionel serves they rake in high profits for their owners.
Lionel prices are exorbitant but will continue to rise until sales finally fall off. My buying spree is over so I don't worry about it. My needs are easily served in the secondary market that is overflowing with products right now.
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Post by RickyTanner on Jul 30, 2024 15:35:04 GMT
I no longer need or desire to buy anything new. There are tens of thousands of modern era trains now being offered for sale on the secondary market to choose from and often sold at bargain basement prices.
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