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Post by rockymountaineer on Apr 9, 2024 22:30:58 GMT
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Post by rockymountaineer on Apr 10, 2024 1:04:02 GMT
For those of you interested, here's a link to the new Atlas-O catalog:
A few odds-and-ends caught my interest, but no serious hit to the wallet this time around for me. There's just way too many other goodies either hitting as we speak... or old pre-orders that should hit within the next 6 months. And I can no longer keep up with everything... nor do I find myself wanting to. I guess when we have a rather large roster of goodies, our buying habits change dramatically.
I did find it odd that Atlas-O has chosen to produce more P42 Genesis locomotives WITHOUT offering any matching passenger cars... when the last time they offered both locomotives and passenger cars, the latter flew off the shelves -- leaving many dealers with an excess of P42 locomotives and no passenger cars to sell with them. Meanwhile, the eBay shysters want an arm-and-a-leg for the passenger cars on the secondary market. Atlas-O could have ended all that nonsense and cut the shysters off at the knees by just offering another production run of the passenger cars in short supply. But nope... they go and offer more locomotives. All I could think is they're possibly hoping some dealers offer custom-runs of passenger cars to match the newer locomotives as well as fill in the gaps for the earlier locomotives. So we shall see.
The other thing that really hit me while listening to the livestream is the irony how the importers have really become front-end shell companies (aka importers) for all the overseas factories that actually produce this stuff. There's now such an overlap between MTH Premier and Atlas-O Premier, I'm completely confused by which company owns which tooling.
Atlas-O announced a new steam locomotive model (i.e., a 2-8-0 in six roadnames)... but it really seems like MTH Premier tooling under the covers. And with Andy Edleman in the picture, I guess he's able to facilitate access to some of these offerings without Atlas-O really needing to "invest" in new tooling and find their own manufacturer as they did with their ill-fated 0-6-0 venture into steam locomotives so long ago.
Check out the catalog, if the mood strikes you. And perhaps you'll see what I mean.
The last comment I'll make pertains to prices. And Atlas-O has fallen lock step into Lionel's footsteps here... raising prices WAY beyond what many of us paid years ago when we were building collections that could literally fill a warehouse. And nothing screams that more than the infamous 40-foot woodside reefers. Back when they were first announced, they carried a $59.95 MSRP. And they were marketed to be this generations version of collectible 6464 boxcars. Unfortunately Atlas-O overproduced them... offering so many that it soon became apparent that nobody would EVER be able to own them all... like postwar Lionel 6464 boxcar collectors could. Now the price-tag for 3-rail models has risen to $92.95 MSRP. So even if Atlas-O suddenly limited the number of reefers they planned to offer -- say 50 of them -- that's a total outlay of nearly $4,650 in MSRP dollars... just for reefers alone.
Prices are gonna be what they're gonna be. But they do give anyone who isn't infinitely wealthy a definite reason to pause before reaching for the wallet just because they might like what they see in a catalog or special dealer announcement. Yes indeed... this hobby has changed right in front of our very eyes. And I don't see it returning back to more reasonable pricing anytime soon.
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Post by seayakbill on Apr 10, 2024 9:15:12 GMT
Yep , O gauge electric trains are at the point that folks just entering the hobby are shaking their heads at the retail prices. I guess that is why Menards has a large following. I would think that the secondary market is doing all right. A person just entering the hobby can purchase traditional size freight cars at train shows or E-Bay for under $20. For folks that want the newest & greatest scale cars you will have to pony up the Ben Franklins. Bill www.youtube.com/user/seayakbill |
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Post by superwarp1 on Apr 10, 2024 11:41:27 GMT
For those of you interested, here's a link to the new Atlas-O catalog:
The last comment I'll make pertains to prices. And Atlas-O has fallen lock step into Lionel's footsteps here... raising prices WAY beyond what many of us paid years ago when we were building collections that could literally fill a warehouse. And nothing screams that more than the infamous 40-foot woodside reefers. Back when they were first announced, they carried a $59.95 MSRP. And they were marketed to be this generations version of collectible 6464 boxcars. Unfortunately Atlas-O overproduced them... offering so many that it soon became apparent that nobody would EVER be able to own them all... like postwar Lionel 6464 boxcar collectors could. Now the price-tag for 3-rail models has risen to $92.95 MSRP. So even if Atlas-O suddenly limited the number of reefers they planned to offer -- say 50 of them -- that's a total outlay of nearly $4,650 in MSRP dollars... just for reefers alone.
Prices are gonna be what they're gonna be. But they do give anyone who isn't infinitely wealthy a definite reason to pause before reaching for the wallet just because they might like what they see in a catalog or special dealer announcement. Yes indeed... this hobby has changed right in front of our very eyes. And I don't see it returning back to more reasonable pricing anytime soon.
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I often wonder when the bubble is going to burst on these inflated prices. For the most part I'm done collecting. Don't need any more passenger cars, don't need anymore freight cars. Have every class steam engine I want. Maybe a diesel here and there (did I really say that  ). Anything that fancy my interest can be had on the secondary market.
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Post by healey36 on Apr 10, 2024 12:19:04 GMT
"I often wonder when the bubble is going to burst on these inflated prices."
Presumably when the Boomers are dead. IMHO, I don't see many coming up behind us that are going to support the market in such a nonsensical manner.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Apr 10, 2024 12:38:25 GMT
"I often wonder when the bubble is going to burst on these inflated prices."Presumably when the Boomers are dead. IMHO, I don't see many coming up behind us that are going to support the market in such a nonsensical manner. Not so sure about that. There is a younger contingent who is VERY excited about model/toy trains. They are admittedly not the same number as the postwar crowd "was", and the Boomer crowd "is now". However, they're a force to be reckoned with. They must have good jobs with high amounts of disposable incomes, and they're spending it.
I've interacted directly with a handful of these "youngsters" at Allentown ATMA... and I'm sure we'll see them in attendance at York this month. Some of them have broken through the plethora of unboxing video reels on YouTube to actually produce some very nice videos that feature their latest additions to their roster. And there are no shortage of new purchases... or so it would seem.
Admittedly, a large number of enthusiasts live vicariously through these YouTubers. But then I also talk with the dealers and club directors who are sponsoring custom-runs, and they tell me the market is hot and their custom-runs are flying out the door. So SOMEONE is buying this stuff... or they wouldn't be tripping over each other to offer all these custom-runs. Have you seen METCA's list of custom-runs? It's almost larger than Atlas-O's new catalog!!! LOL!!! 
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Post by superwarp1 on Apr 10, 2024 12:41:36 GMT
The 2-8-0 are interesting. Glad AtlasO is doing steam but since I'm not a fan of DCS and their stale sounds I don't think the price they are charging is worth it to me, IMO.
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bob
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by bob on Apr 10, 2024 13:18:48 GMT
Let's inject a dose of reality into rockymountaineer's latest price rant. According to this inflation calculator (others give the same result, withing a couple of dollars): www.usinflationcalculator.com/$59.95 in 2000 (the first year of Atlas O's reefer production) equates to $108.74 in 2024 dollars. The current Atlas $92.95 MSRP is just a fact of life. If, instead of buying a reefer in 2000, you had invested your $59.95 in the S&P 500 index, you'd have over $200 today. You could buy TWO new Atlas reefers! Of course, you would have spent 24 years with no reefers, so there's that. |
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Post by superwarp1 on Apr 10, 2024 13:32:01 GMT
Let's inject a dose of reality into rockymountaineer's latest price rant. According to this inflation calculator (others give the same result, withing a couple of dollars): www.usinflationcalculator.com/$59.95 in 2000 (the first year of Atlas O's reefer production) equates to $108.74 in 2024 dollars. The current Atlas $92.95 MSRP is just a fact of life. If, instead of buying a reefer in 2000, you had invested your $59.95 in the S&P 500 index, you'd have over $200 today. You could buy TWO new Atlas reefers! Of course, you would have spent 24 years with no reefers, so there's that. Well the S&P would of been a better investment for sure but my salary is not keeping up with inflation so stats you listed is only half the picture.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Apr 10, 2024 14:01:43 GMT
EXCELLENT point, Gary. And the other element to these new higher prices is the fact that importers and manufacturers are charging these inflated prices while searching for ways to cut corners on quality. Although Atlas-O has maintained a good reputation generally speaking, the same cannot be said for Lionel whose prices are even higher than those of Atlas-O.
Aside from color issues, Lionel continues to produce big-ticket trains that sometime have couplers that don't work consistently, and passenger car interiors that are mounted backwards, or empty cars that once included passengers in them when cars were less expensive. Lionel's much awaited re-do of their milk cars was a complete debacle a few years ago with paint-chip issues. Yet that didn't prevent them from inflating the price compared to the original production runs of milk cars that were flawless. And let's not forget Lionel's non-response to customers when quality issues (i.e., the recent YUELTIDE misspelling on its top-of-the-line passenger set) are brought forward for resolution. So try and plug those jewels into your inflation calculator, Bob.
Bottom line... if you're gonna characterize a post as a "price rant", Bob... you might wanna point out ALL sides of reality... not just the sides that fit your narrative.
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Post by healey36 on Apr 10, 2024 14:33:38 GMT
Just curious, what do you suppose is the quantity numbers on a "custom run"? 25? 50? 100? 500?
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Post by healey36 on Apr 10, 2024 14:52:31 GMT
"I often wonder when the bubble is going to burst on these inflated prices."Presumably when the Boomers are dead. IMHO, I don't see many coming up behind us that are going to support the market in such a nonsensical manner. Not so sure about that. There is a younger contingent who is VERY excited about model/toy trains. They are admittedly not the same number as the postwar crowd "was", and the Boomer crowd "is now". However, they're a force to be reckoned with. They must have good jobs with high amounts of disposable incomes, and they're spending it.
I've interacted directly with a handful of these "youngsters" at Allentown ATMA... and I'm sure we'll see them in attendance at York this month. Some of them have broken through the plethora of unboxing video reels on YouTube to actually produce some very nice videos that feature their latest additions to their roster. And there are no shortage of new purchases... or so it would seem.
Admittedly, a large number of enthusiasts live vicariously through these YouTubers. But then I also talk with the dealers and club directors who are sponsoring custom-runs, and they tell me the market is hot and their custom-runs are flying out the door. So SOMEONE is buying this stuff... or they wouldn't be tripping over each other to offer all these custom-runs. Have you seen METCA's list of custom-runs? It's almost larger than Atlas-O's new catalog!!! LOL!!!
I stand by my sense that the Boomers are the ones predominantly buying this stuff. They are retired for the most part, they have significant disposable income, and they have time on their hands. They are also 60-78 years old. The number of youngsters coming up behind them who fancy three-rail O-gauge, or O-gauge in general, is a pittance by comparison. It only feels like there are oodles of them because their voices/numbers are amplified by social media. Buy the stuff you want, enjoy it, have fun. All I'm saying is the long-term prospects for the O-gauge hobby is one of greatly diminished numbers.
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Post by superwarp1 on Apr 10, 2024 15:30:17 GMT
Aren't demographics fun? There's a big demographics guy on YouTube I watch, while I don't always agree with him, he does make some good points. Zeihan on Geopolitics is the channel.
Back to the catalog. There are some interesting choices in this catalog. Things I would go for if I was younger and starting out. NYC 60' passenger cars are a good example. Public Delivery Track is thinking about doing a custom run of 2-8-0 in RUTLAND. While it won't match a true prototype, who cares. 
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Post by rockymountaineer on Apr 10, 2024 16:08:30 GMT
Just curious, what do you suppose is the quantity numbers on a "custom run"? 25? 50? 100? 500? Every importer seems to have different requirements. Dealers have told me that MTH is the easiest to work with in terms of minimum commitments and terms. I do know Lionel has a minimum locomotive commitment of 40 units., whereas rolling stock pieces require upwards of 100 units. Dealers have gone with MTH for as few as 20 or so locomotives at times, and TrainLoft only produced about 15 or so custom Shays earlier this year. Not sure what MTH’s minimum is for rolling stock, but I do know dealers have said Atlas-O I had more stringent commitments s. |
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Post by healey36 on Apr 10, 2024 17:31:44 GMT
Just curious, what do you suppose is the quantity numbers on a "custom run"? 25? 50? 100? 500? Every importer seems to have different requirements. Dealers have told me that MTH is the easiest to work with in terms of minimum commitments and terms. I do know Lionel has a minimum locomotive commitment of 40 units., whereas rolling stock pieces require upwards of 100 units. Dealers have gone with MTH for as few as 20 or so locomotives at times, and TrainLoft only produced about 15 or so custom Shays earlier this year. Not sure what MTH’s minimum is for rolling stock, but I do know dealers have said Atlas-O I had more stringent commitments s. Thanks. I figured the numbers must be fairly low given the occasional "Only a handful will be made" promotional talk you sometimes hear. It would go a long ways toward explaining why the ending asking price is so high. The front-end cost for a production run is likely substantial, even if the dies are already on-hand.
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). Anything that fancy my interest can be had on the secondary market.
