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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 11, 2024 16:02:18 GMT
The catalog went live a few minutes before 10AM Eastern Time today (Thursday).
And I gotta admit it's a FABULOUS catalog. HOWEVER, you've really gotta look through the ENTIRE catalog before drawing any conclusions, because there are some wonderful surprises in the back half of the catalog. Usually, my interests focus on stuff in the front end of the catalog. But this time there are some real jewels sprinkled throughout the entire catalog. So look closely when building your list of wants.
One thing I will say -- and I've been mentioning this for a few years now -- is that Lionel seems to be offering TONS of different liveries of the same basic models. No more half a dozen or so liveries of, for example, ES44's. I counted FIFTEEN across several page-spreads... the last being 5 CSX variations. And the ES44 plastic-body locomotives are now a staggering $750 MSRP. Whoa!!! I can remember when the DIECAST models hit that price-point when first catalog'd years ago. So I'll be passing on these ABS offerings.
Same thing is true of the Hiawatha style offerings in so many different variations. I actually lost count of the number of Hiawatha and passenger sets offered. FAR too many IMHO. But then I'll admit the streamlined Hiawatha locomotives never really called my name. So I guess with all the variations, Lionel is hoping there's something for everyone.
Now what's great about the passenger sets here is that Lionel has revived its 18-inch aluminum series... with detailed interiors AND passengers!!! None of the sets really caught my eye as a "must have" UNTIL I got to the Christmas section, where they're offering an 18" aluminum car set in the North Pole Central livery. Looks cool... and it might make a really nice train to go with the F-19 NPC steamer due out later in 2024 -- especially if you're not a fan of Hiawatha style locomotives in this catalog. So I'm gonna watch this passenger set closely to ensure Lionel gets the spellings correct on all the passenger coaches -- especially after the recent fiasco with the 2023 North Pole Central scale passenger train's YUELTIDE coach!
Lionel's aluminum cars are now carrying a $300 MSRP, but we'll see what the big dealers discounts will be. Charles Ro usually has the most aggressive passenger train prices in recent years. One thing different about these 18" aluminum sets appears to be the StationSounds effects are now in the observation car. Interesting approach vs. a stand-alone StationSounds dining car.
The other dangerous set of pages in the catalog are the Polar Express goodies in the Christmas section. Once again, there's no shortages of P/E locomotives... I quickly counted THREE scale Berks: a standard Black, a P/E special-edition red/maroon, and a Lionelstore exclusive in Blue with a plasma coating that changes colors somewhat depending on the viewing angle. They all look cool. So I wonder... does Lionel want folks to choose ONE? Or perhaps entertain buying more than one? This stuff can add up quickly. That's for sure. Lots of great Polar Express passenger car and freight car offerings are in this section of the catalog too. So you have been warned: proceed with caution.
Then of course I wouldn't be a healthy American U.S. Male if I didn't want to fill out my collection of Wings of Angels boxcars. I have all of them to date, so these new rolling stock in the 2024 catalog are a natural to add to my favorites list.
And lastly, the one page-spread in the Legacy Diesel section near the front of the catalog that REALLY caught my eye was the SILVER Burlington E6 ABB units. There's also a 21" ABS passenger set catalog'd as well. But I'm happy with just the StationSounds diner that would look splendid in my California Zephyr passenger train (18" aluminum). And the silver Burlington E6's would head up the all-silver CZ train magnificently.
So all in all, there's definitely lots of goodies here for all interests. The big question -- given Lionel's recent faux pas related to graphics and color issues -- is how many of these jewels will fols PRE-ORDER vs. waiting to see what's actually delivered. That's gonna be a big wild-card. And the large dealers will need to proceed carefully in how many extra's they order beyond the hard-n-fast BTO pre-orders from customers.
Interesting times for sure... but overall a very healthy catalog... more than I expected given how many big-ticket items Lionel delivered the last few months in 2023. Seems they're hoping enthusiasts still have DEEP pockets with lots more $$$ to spend in 2024/2025!!!
Oh yes... one thing I forget to mention that I thought was somewhat telling: Nearly the last SIXTY pages of this catalog feature items that are "sill available" from prior catalogs. So that might also be a commentary on the current state of the toy train market with respect to new product offerings.
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Post by dennym57 on Jan 11, 2024 16:12:50 GMT
I'll have to wait until I get the hard copy. My tablet screen is too small to really see the print. I'll pick one up when I go to the train store, weather permitting.
Besides, I like holding it in my hand.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 11, 2024 17:04:36 GMT
For those interested in the aluminum 18" passenger coaches with detailed interiors and passengers, Charles Ro has the 4-pack for $990 (down from the $1400 MSRP), and the 3-pack for $640 (down from the $900 MSRP). And once again, the 4-pack includes StationSounds effects in the Observation Car.
That's a lower price-point than what I was expecting for Lionel resurrecting their aluminum cars, and GGD is at $350/coach for 21" cars. I prefer Lionel's $220/coach, because they're a better price/performer; you get nice StationSounds effects that add to the fun-factor; and 18" cars look better on my layout... and most layouts except for large club layouts and basement empires.
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Post by Adam on Jan 11, 2024 17:47:06 GMT
It does seem to be a neat catalog with a lot of new and fun offerings. The Atomic Energy Commission glow in the dark set seems really fun.
But for me the problem is the prices and not knowing if they will get built and if the quality will hit the mark.
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Post by josef on Jan 11, 2024 18:05:16 GMT
For those interested in the aluminum 18" passenger coaches with detailed interiors and passengers, Charles Ro has the 4-pack for $990 (down from the $1400 MSRP), and the 3-pack for $640 (down from the $900 MSRP). And once again, the 4-pack includes StationSounds effects in the Observation Car.
That's a lower price-point than what I was expecting for Lionel resurrecting their aluminum cars, and GGD is at $350/coach for 21" cars. I prefer Lionel's $220/coach, because they're a better price/performer; you get nice StationSounds effects that add to the fun-factor; and 18" cars look better on my layout... and most layouts except for large club layouts and basement empires.
I have always preferred the 18" cars. Somehow, it maybe only my perception, the 21" cars look odd even on long straightaways tracks. 18" just look right to me and sold all my 21" year ago.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 11, 2024 20:02:54 GMT
For those interested in the aluminum 18" passenger coaches with detailed interiors and passengers, Charles Ro has the 4-pack for $990 (down from the $1400 MSRP), and the 3-pack for $640 (down from the $900 MSRP). And once again, the 4-pack includes StationSounds effects in the Observation Car.
I was about to holler “SHAME! DISGRACE!!!” but calm prevailed. I have 15” and some 18” cars but the scale size is the only one that any longer calls my name and I don’t care if to anyone else they look disproportionate rounding a curve or if they are really too big for someone like me who lacks a basement (or any) 3rail empire. But I would not pay Lionel’s prices when if I wanted or needed any more passenger cars I could find something from GGD.
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Post by david1 on Jan 11, 2024 21:59:39 GMT
It looks like a very nice catalog but the prices are getting very high. Although I like a few of the items I just can't justify the costs. I mean $160 for a flat car and trailer. Lionchief Berkshires for $600.
Guess ill stick to the secondary market.
Dave
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 11, 2024 22:41:11 GMT
Dare I say GGD has quite the cult following of sorts... folks who are looking for specific details on each passenger train as they existed in the real world. I don't say that in a bad way. It's just that the GGD audience is very particular and they're willing to pay upwards of $5K+ without skipping a heartbeat for a passenger train with motive power included. There was a time when some of those offerings called my name (at lower price points). But now, it's simply out of the question.
At one point, I owned GGD's Empire Builder, El Capitan, and GM Train of Tomorrow. But they have all found new homes in recent years. I found them to be VERY heavy trains... even on a relatively flat layout.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Jan 11, 2024 22:45:34 GMT
My enthusiasm for the catalog is tempered by the uncertainty of the quality of the deliverable. But with that caveat, I saw some pretty pictures that I liked.
1. The Blue/Gray Nickel Plate Road Berk is definitely eye catching. The paint scheme gives extra detail obscured by flat black engines w/o going technicolor.
2. At first I was disappointed with the Eerie wooden passenger cars but they are starting to grow on me and at least they are not 21" long. I am not certain that they are a good match for the Eerie Triplex size wise. The F-19 may be a better consist match. But then what for the Triplex? O gauge Halloween freight?
3. The Eerie caboose is a pricey little number but it is either all in or go home scenario I suppose.
4. The Christmas Hiawatha Ala carte set is a bit more problematic for me. I prefer previous MTH Premier versions of the Hiawatha as far as the wheel arrangement. However I like previous Lionel versions for its' homage to the standard gauge tinplate era look as I understand it. That esthetic is maintained in the current offering.
I like the reintroduction of the aluminum cars especially at the 18" length. However the distinctive beaver tail observation car is not likely to match up well with the F-19 Christmas engine IMO. Which pretty much means that whole set will be on the table.
All of this however is considered within the context of recent Lionel gaffs.
Only time and stupidity will tell I suppose.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 11, 2024 23:03:41 GMT
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 11, 2024 23:20:41 GMT
Dare I say GGD has quite the cult following of sorts... folks who are looking for specific details on each passenger train as they existed in the real world. I don't say that in a bad way. It's just that the GGD audience is very particular and they're willing to pay upwards of $5K+ without skipping a heartbeat for a passenger train with motive power included. There was a time when some of those offerings called my name (at lower price points). But now, it's simply out of the question.
At one point, I owned GGD's Empire Builder, El Capitan, and GM Train of Tomorrow. But they have all found new homes in recent years. I found them to be VERY heavy trains... even on a relatively flat layout.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 12, 2024 3:15:54 GMT
... I do however prefer Scott Mann's quality over anything that comes from Lionel these days and I'd buy a SINGLE passenger car from him over a whole Lionel set. I'm sorry that you did not hold on to your GM TofT set as it's one of the finest things produced in O scale 3rail ever. I agree that Scott's attention to quality is impeccable. And it's sad that a company like Lionel who claims to be a "leader" in the industry can't exert better quality standards with their overseas manufacturers. By and large, recent product faux-pas will definitely have folks thinking twice about pre-ordering as they might have done 5-10 years ago.
Then again... I give props to Lionel for manufacturing Train Loft's Big Boy with such magnificent attention to detail, and the exquisite finish on their Lionel Lines Dreyfus "locomotive of the year" for 2023. By the way, I believe that finish is now being referred to as a "plasma finish" as described in the specs of the Blue Polar Express Berk that's available exclusively through the Lionel Online Store for 2024. I spoke to a store rep today (Thursday), and that should look fabulous on a Polar Express locomotive.
As for the GM Train of Tomorrow... I was hoping we'd eventually see a similar offering from Lionel, because I like the "fun factor" that comes with Legacy Railsounds and StationSounds dining cars. Who knows? Now that we know it's in the realm of possibility that Lionel will be delivering 18" aluminum passenger cars again, perhaps that will happen.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Jan 12, 2024 10:00:28 GMT
Well, I have to admit I'm rather surprised, and delighted, at how nice this catalog is! This is the list of items I really find interesting and hope to be able to get if money were no object. Included with the list are some of my previous comments that, fortunately or unfortunately, I will have to enjoy with a nice helping of crow! (Add cheese and bacon, please!)Jan 8, 2024 18:21:44 GMT -8 Traindiesel! said:
"If that’s the top five items in the catalog my wallet is safe."
Jan 8, 2024 18:21:44 GMT -8 Traindiesel! said:
The Hiawatha will ‘look’ magnificent, I’m sure. I don’t need that either as I’ve acquired MTH plastic and K-Line aluminum versions in steam and diesel. Milwaukee Road 4-4-2 Hiawatha #4 - My gosh, the catalog picture looks beautiful! And I have some nice Golden Gate Depot Heavyweight cars to run behind the Atlantic. What can I say?Conrail GP9 #7020Reading SD45 #7601 & #7603 - I like the extended control stand cab.Jan 8, 2024 18:21:44 GMT -8 Traindiesel! said:
Unless the E7s are plated Burlington to pull my K-Line California Zephyr set. But they’d be up against Mr. Muffin’s custom MTH Burlington Northern E8 set at a much lower price point than anything Lionel does. I prefer just Burlington as opposed to Burlington Northern but I’ll wait to see what’s cataloged.Burlington AB E5 - I like that it's CB&Q but hoped they would be plated to better match the K-Line California Zephyr cars and I hoped for E7s or E8's. Still need to do some research on the Burlington Northern E8 set in relation to the California Zephyr that Mr. Muffin is offering from Atlas O.Conrail U28C #6521Penn Central U28C #6526 - Probably one or the other between Penn Central and Conrail. I could mate either with the Lionel PRR U28C offered in 2012. (The ones that were blown out by dealers because the there were two PRR logos on one side of the engine but none on the other side)CB&Q PS-1 FreightSounds Box Car #17302Conrail PS-2 Covered Hopper #877045A&P Woodside Reefer #12000 & #12021 - Growing up we had an A&P Supermarket in the neighborhood. I stopped in there on hot afternoons many times for a cold drink or two after playing baseball.  Milwaukee Road 2 Bay AAR Hopper 3 PacksErie 2 Bay AAR Hopper 3 Packs - The Erie cars would go with my MTH Triplex.Jan 8, 2024 18:21:44 GMT -8 Traindiesel! said:
I love the Polar Express movie. I love that Lionel has made them in different scales and add on items. But I never had the desire to own one, as beautiful as the scale set is.
The Polar Express: - I couldn't help it. I was paging through the catalog, the lights were dim, the Christmas tree and decoration lights were on, the cars and locomotive were scale sized and we recently watch the movie on DVD. I was helpless. I was overtaken by nostalgia and the fact that these were scale cars and a scale Legacy Berkshire. What was I supposed to do??!! And the passenger cars have people in them!Legacy Berkshire #122520TH Anniversary CoachAbandoned Toy CarBaggage CarCoach (2)CombineDinerObservation car (White Roof)Pullman Car “Believe” (White Roof) - Still AvailablePullman Car “North Pole” (White Roof) - Still AvailableChristmas Hot Chocolate Thermos Car - Still Available - My wife likes this silly thing so I'll add it to the Christmas car consist.Station Lights 3 Pack (4) - These lights will be perfect for the commuter train station I want to build for the layout. I like the fancy curved top that holds the lamp.___________________________________________________________________________________________________________Ok, now the reality. Total catalog cost of all of these items - $10,560 Looks like I'll have to start a "Go Fund Me" page, knock off a bank or look for a rich uncle!! And all this is after the other trains I have my eye on need to be secured. No, I'm not addicted, not at all, nope! I'm just dedicated to the hobby.
Some sudden thought and second thoughts about the catalog:
*I'm sorry, but that Bob Ross water tower is just creepy! The rest of those items are ok. My Grandmother watched his show on PBS every Saturday afternoon.
*How can Lionel make Mister Roger's Neighborhood items without making the trolly!!?? (or did they do that before?)
*I wonder when the tipping point will be with the prices of not only Lionel trains but all of the O gauge importer Universe? Especially the BTO model.
*I listed a couple steam locomotives. I'm not worried as much about color variations as long as it's not egregious. In the real world weather reeked havoc on equipment. But I am afraid, terrified even, of the mechanical, electronic and loose parts problems with Lionel steam engines. Faulty gear boxes, going on since at least 2011, broken items in the boxes and failures right at start up have me worried because of the price of these things. They may be toys but they are not throw away items at $1500 or more each. I haven't run my Strasburg #90 yet but if I have any problems I mention or anything else wrong that makes operating difficult or impossible it'll be my last Lionel steam engine that I preorder.
*I've been thinking about those personalized cars. Might be neat for remembering family past and present.
*Ok, who will admit to buying any of the Barbie items?! 
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 12, 2024 11:18:39 GMT
... I do however prefer Scott Mann's quality over anything that comes from Lionel these days and I'd buy a SINGLE passenger car from him over a whole Lionel set. I'm sorry that you did not hold on to your GM TofT set as it's one of the finest things produced in O scale 3rail ever. I agree that Scott's attention to quality is impeccable. And it's sad that a company like Lionel who claims to be a "leader" in the industry can't exert better quality standards with their overseas manufacturers.
Then again... I give props to Lionel for manufacturing Train Loft's Big Boy with such magnificent attention to detail, and the exquisite finish on their Lionel Lines Dreyfus "locomotive of the year" for 2023.
As for the GM Train of Tomorrow... I was hoping we'd eventually see a similar offering from Lionel, because I like the "fun factor" that comes with Legacy Railsounds and StationSounds dining cars. Who knows? Now that we know it's in the realm of possibility that Lionel will be delivering 18" aluminum passenger cars again, perhaps that will happen.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 12, 2024 13:41:30 GMT
...Ok, now the reality. Total catalog cost of all of these items - $10,560 Looks like I'll have to start a "Go Fund Me" page, knock off a bank or look for a rich uncle!! And all this is after the other trains I have my eye on need to be secured. No, I'm not addicted, not at all, nope! I'm just dedicated to the hobby.
...
THIS is precisely why it's good for our friendly importers to produce a catalog!!! And it's why the new MTH approach of a daily announcement literally drives me nuts -- not to mention it's gotten so darn old I don't even look at them some days. It may work for MTH, because they no longer feel the need to produce a catalog with a small staff. But enthusiasts literally don't have a clue how much they're spending from month to month. We're effectively signing up to buy stuff that's at least 6 months out... and sometimes as long as 12-18 months. But if you tally up the dollars spent over time, it can be quite substantial.
Much better to build a big wish list... and then whittle it down to reality, which can be assessed in a variety of ways. For most of us, reality will be quickly determined by financials. We all have our limits. But then there's the issue of SPACE... whether it be on the layout or on display shelves or in storage. The cold truth is I have literally no space remaining to display trains in the train room. I don't wanna clog up the layout with trains on every inch of track... and some trains are still packed in their boxes on storage room shelves. Staggering!!!
That being the case, then what business do I have building a wish-list that hits the $10,000 mark in a new catalog? You are not alone, Brian, if it makes you feel any better. I guess it's all part of the disease, addiction, dedication, or whatever else we want to call it!!!! Sigh... there are worse things in life for sure. At least toy trains are a "healthy" addiction. LOL!!! 
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