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Post by healey36 on Dec 9, 2023 17:01:58 GMT
The misspelling of "Yuletide" appeared in the catalog which means it was a pre-production error. That would be what's known as "the smoking gun".
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 9, 2023 18:18:19 GMT
Thanks for the support Denny. As far as being tied to the tracks, as long as I don't have to dress up like Little Nell I am OK with that!  |
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Post by dlagrua on Dec 9, 2023 19:29:13 GMT
I for one want to read comments from other hobbyists about their opinion of model train products. If their posts are truthful, honest, respectful and have merit they belong here. The other forum that we know of is only about making money for the owner and appeasing their advertisers to do so. In that over-moderated format you cannot report on issues or give an honest respectful opinion on quality, price and availability.
The OP of this thread is only trying to be helpful and I'm sure that we all welcome his input here.
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Post by josef on Dec 9, 2023 20:43:07 GMT
I always wondered, and if anyone knows. Are the staff of Forums that have Corporate sponsor draw a salary?
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Post by harborbelt70 on Dec 9, 2023 21:41:37 GMT
I always wondered, and if anyone knows. Are the staff of Forums that have Corporate sponsor draw a salary?
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Post by josef on Dec 9, 2023 22:11:02 GMT
I always wondered, and if anyone knows. Are the staff of Forums that have Corporate sponsor draw a salary? If so, that answers not only looking out for sponsors, but also their salary. No wonder you'll never get a honest review on products if they failed to deliver a quality product.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 9, 2023 22:25:53 GMT
I for one want to read comments from other hobbyists about their opinion of model train products. If their posts are truthful, honest, respectful and have merit they belong here. The other forum that we know of is only about making money for the owner and appeasing their advertisers to do so. In that over-moderated format you cannot report on issues or give an honest respectful opinion on quality, price and availability. The OP of this thread is only trying to be helpful and I'm sure that we all welcome his input here. Thanks for your kind words. Up until now I have avoided posting on forums because the OP's thread was often hijacked outright, or misdirected in ways that the OP never intended or wanted. That kind of volatility is largely absent here so I took Emile up on his invitation to join OGF. I am pleased to be here. Rather than trying to cause trouble with 'My Present' post I was advocating for a cooling off period in order to allow Lionel the time, if they chose to do so, to arrive at a solution for the Yuletide misspelling among other recent issues that seem to be coming at an accelerated pace and speak to not having these problems continue. 'Over there' it was not interpreted that way for whatever reason. Is it the push by Lionel to have most if not all of the 2023 catalog items arrive in 2023 that is contributing to these issues. Did the Pennsylvania Dutch say 'Haste makes waste'? If not I am certain they say 'The hurrier I go the behinder I get'. However, true to my word my Lionel critics cap is off until 2024. I want nothing but the best for Lionel if only because it serves our collective interests for them to do so.
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Post by dennym57 on Dec 9, 2023 22:40:35 GMT
Thanks for the support Denny. As far as being tied to the tracks, as long as I don't have to dress up like Little Nell I am OK with that! Well...ok, but I was going to have Snidley Whiplash tie you to the tracks.😁
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 9, 2023 22:48:06 GMT
Thanks for the support Denny. As far as being tied to the tracks, as long as I don't have to dress up like Little Nell I am OK with that! Well...ok, but I was going to have Snidley Whiplash tie you to the tracks.😁 In that case.....
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Post by atsda on Dec 11, 2023 15:58:02 GMT
Chuck, Fair enough. Alfred
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 12, 2023 14:46:22 GMT
It’s been demonstrated over the years that Lionel doesn’t respond to or acknowledge any complaints or ‘pleas’, as evident by the continued product deficiencies. The people at the helm of Lionel are just cogs in the wheel. The only way to slightly get their attention is to keep our wallets closed. They probably operate by the 80 - 20 rule. Any returns or complaints under 20% are within their budget. There are a lot of buyers who accept/ don’t notice or care about defects most people here won’t tolerate. We are within the 20% that Lionel can ignore. They’ll happily keep producing product, some that are home runs, some with defects. Buyer beware. ... Sadly, Brian, you have nailed it 1,000%. The YUELTIDE fiasco is already water under the bridge for Lionel management. In their rush to push everything under the sun out the door from their 2023 Big Book catalog, they just don't care about the stuff we're mentioning here... because they're too busy trying to make buyers "feel good" about all the new goodies that are still-to-be delivered yet this year. If they cared, why haven't we seen changes? How many times have we said too many scale models are delivered with pale chalky, primer grey coloring that is more appropriate for O-27 plastic starter sets??? How many of those scale models been ruined by this? Or need to be "fixed" with weathering by after-market craftsmen? The recent NYC Dreyfus models are the latest examples -- in contrast to the excellent paint schemes on the Black Bonnet and Lionel Store exclusive Dreyfus steamers.
Have you seen all the stuff that was delivered to dealers and distributors over the past several days? With more yet to come? Pallets galore... and big-ticket items too... including Dreyfus steamers, Russian Decapods, Pennsy I1's, premium train sets with sound cars, along with tons of individual rolling stock. Some nicely done. The last thing Lionel management wants to do is take a step back and revisit an obvious pre-production error -- no matter that the OP is giving them the opportunity by stepping away from honest yet frank product reviews. As for the other forum's moderation style when truthful product reviews are published, I'm befuddled as to why ANY member tolerates getting their content censored or deleted on management's whim. The best thing I did was to move on from that place and rid myself of the immature police-state tactics that are an everyday occurrence over there.
It was a laudable move on the part of the OP to give Lionel management a chance to "do the right thing" here. But I just don't see that happening any time soon. I do hope I'm wrong though.
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Post by curtis on Dec 12, 2023 15:30:37 GMT
runamuckchuck
I personally enjoyed your presence here on this forum. Members here bring insight and a multitude of views into subjects I am interested in. I enjoy the banter that goes on but most I enjoy what our forefathers called Freedom of Speech. I agree with your comment but also know what drives America today is MONEY. Not necessarily how you make it but that you make it. We are teaching our younger generations that and we have become a high dollar throw away society. We accept many things that are not up to what they are advertised as. Appliances, Cars, Food, Clothing and trains just to mention a few. For those of us who can not repair our own whatever, we are faced to do as you have done. Wording is important and you did a very fine job. Let us hope it succeeds rather than falls on deaf ears. Even if they only read it they at least know about it. To all this I say Thank You Chuck!
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 12, 2023 16:06:32 GMT
Thanks Curtis for the appreciation.
I suppose the most discouraging aspect of the whole situation was that I was told that the only reason that I posted 'Present to Lionel' elsewhere first was to stir up trouble. In psychology circles there's something called projection in which a person attributes to others the feeling or motivations that they themselves have.
It is my sincere hope that Mr. Hitchcock, and Kunkel read my cover letter and post if only to realize that as you say, there are thoughtful people who want Lionel to be successful even if from time to time they voice their concern/criticisms when warranted.
Positive action would be an added bonus.
Regardless, I am satisfied in the knowledge that I tried.
What's that old expression; no good deed goes unpunished.
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Post by healey36 on Dec 12, 2023 20:28:28 GMT
I think the best response you'll get is "Yeah, we messed up...sorry." Expectations beyond that are probably woefully misplaced.
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Post by dlagrua on Dec 12, 2023 20:47:52 GMT
Thanks Curtis for the appreciation. I suppose the most discouraging aspect of the whole situation was that I was told that the only reason that I posted 'Present to Lionel' elsewhere first was to stir up trouble. In psychology circles there's something called projection in which a person attributes to others the feeling or motivations that they themselves have. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Hitchcock, and Kunkel read my cover letter and post if only to realize that as you say, there are thoughtful people who want Lionel to be successful even if from time to time they voice their concern/criticisms when warranted. Positive action would be an added bonus. Regardless, I am satisfied in the knowledge that I tried. What's that old expression; no good deed goes unpunished.9 /
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