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Post by bobthetrainguy on Dec 1, 2023 14:54:02 GMT
Has anyone seen the new Dreyfuss Hudsons and 20th Century Limited cars in person? Whooo boy did they screw this one up.
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Post by dennym57 on Dec 1, 2023 15:28:32 GMT
I don't pay attention to anything new Lionel puts out anymore.
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mopac
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Post by mopac on Dec 1, 2023 16:39:07 GMT
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Dec 1, 2023 16:56:38 GMT
Yeah, I'd been following that thread as well, with some bemusement. Most of the comments have been fairly polite, but with a few exceptions (the OP being the primary one!), the lack of enthusiasm is palpable! I'm not a Lionel guy (nor am I in any danger of being taken for either a rivet counter or fantasy enthusiast!), but I'm not sure there's more than a *very* limited market for such a quirky offering. It reminds me of the '60's enthusiasm for custom cars with wild metalflake paint jobs -- certainly striking (in a "look at me, look at me!" way), but not something you'd propose for a daily driver! 
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Post by bobthetrainguy on Dec 2, 2023 15:20:05 GMT
Sorry I should’ve been more specific. I’m not talking about the fantasy schemes. Im talking about the 20th Century Limited.
I’ve updated the title.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 2, 2023 16:06:40 GMT
There is DEFINITELY a breakdown somewhere between North Carolina and Lionel's overseas factory these days. And unless someone here in the States is CLOSELY supervising a project, willy-nilly decisions made overseas are almost always guaranteed to miss the mark. Greys, greens and reds seem most prone to disappointment. EVERY project needs an advocate here in the States to ensure what's delivered is what was originally intended.
Generally speaking, nothing can be left to chance. There's a tendency for Lionel's factory to use a thick, chalky grey coloring on locomotives that appear like a primer grey... giving the products a very cheap appearance... something you'd expect to see on a kids O-27 starter set. Not something that's appropriate on a big-ticket, high-priced scale model. But the factory doesn't see it that way, because they keep making the same "mistake" over and over again UNLESS directed to do otherwise.
The Train Loft's VisionLine Big Boy is a perfect example, where someone Stateside made sure colors were spot-on for the UP's D&RGW Heritage paint-scheme. Without that kind of close scrutiny at every step along the way, I'd never trust the factory to blindly make the right choices. Someone screwed up big-time on the prototype Dreyfus models.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 13:43:28 GMT
There is DEFINITELY a breakdown somewhere between North Carolina and Lionel's overseas factory these days. And unless someone here in the States is CLOSELY supervising a project, willy-nilly decisions made overseas are almost always guaranteed to miss the mark. Greys, greens and reds seem most prone to disappointment. EVERY project needs an advocate here in the States to ensure what's delivered is what was originally intended.
Generally speaking, nothing can be left to chance. There's a tendency for Lionel's factory to use a thick, chalky grey coloring on locomotives that appear like a primer grey... giving the products a very cheap appearance... something you'd expect to see on a kids O-27 starter set. Not something that's appropriate on a big-ticket, high-priced scale model. But the factory doesn't see it that way, because they keep making the same "mistake" over and over again UNLESS directed to do otherwise.
The Train Loft's VisionLine Big Boy is a perfect example, where someone Stateside made sure colors were spot-on for the UP's D&RGW Heritage paint-scheme. Without that kind of close scrutiny at every step along the way, I'd never trust the factory to blindly make the right choices. Someone screwed up big-time on the prototype Dreyfus models.
The stereo/Hi Fi industry has historically had the same problem with products made in China. Unless you have an in country presence, a joint venture, or a trusted partner under continuous/periodic scrutiny then results have been sketchy to disastrous. Anecdotally the story goes that initially the quality is fine, but over time decreases. Is this cultural, greed, disinterest? I don't know but the successful manufacturers of Hi Fi gear keep a close eye and a short leash on their Chinese manufacturing sources. But having said that in general Chinese made Hi Fi gear especially in the so-called audiophile sector are viewed somewhat skeptically when compared to European, Japanese, and made in America brands. Does anyone know to what degree Lionel (or MTH for that matter) manage their Chinese manufacturer relationships? There is definitely something fundamentally wrong with the current arrangement based upon the unsatisfactory and inconsistent quality results we are experiencing.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 4, 2023 15:49:01 GMT
... Does anyone know to what degree Lionel (or MTH for that matter) manage their Chinese manufacturer relationships? There is definitely something fundamentally wrong with the current arrangement based upon the unsatisfactory and inconsistent quality results we are experiencing. That may very well be the $64,000 question to which nobody outside of Lionel really has an answer. And Lionel has been somewhat evasive about whatever arrangement is in place.
Onsite factory supervision is clearly lacking -- if it even exists at all. I suspect none of us has a clue what really transpires. And we likely wouldn't want to know, because it's so far from anything that we would hope would be the case. Scary... as the catalogs get bigger and bigger... with more products being pushed through the production line. People are human. And at the end of the day, it's clear that Lionel employees have surpassed the point of being simply overwhelmed. They seem to be at the mercy of overseas production facilities -- who in their own nature are probably vastly overwhelmed producing more product than they should. But the money is hypnotizing... and we're seeing the results... as unpleasant as they are.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Dec 4, 2023 22:05:26 GMT
In speaking with our local hobby shop they have anecdotal information that manufacturers reps are still having a difficult time getting into parts of China because of ongoing COVID restrictions. I am not certain that I am buying that but it is plausible.
And as for Lionel's secrecy, it may bear repeating that we are not dealing with top secret weapons systems here. And as for competitors, except for a hobbled MTH who does Lionel have as competitors especially in the steam engine sector?
The dealers and distributors are caught in the middle and Lionel just keeps silent while their customers are left holding the bag after the 30 day return period expires.
You can't complain about the customer service as there appears to be none at least in support of especially expensive defective products.
Lion Chief Line is starting to look better and better to me if you just want to unbox it and run it.
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