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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 12, 2023 0:52:42 GMT
Hi folks,
Word on the street was Lionel would announce its next Vision Line locomotive this Friday (10/13), but I received an email from a dealer tonight that highlights Lionel's announcement brochure. I hear Lionel has distributed this to dealers, and some are offering their customers a "sneak peek". No harm that I can see... except to one's wallet. LOL!!!
Drum roll.... it's a Vision Line TRIPLEX, based on MTH tooling that Lionel purchased. And at a price-point much higher than we'd likely see from MTH. Lionel's price is $2,500 MSRP, and dealers will likely take pre-orders near $2,250 or so. There's also a 15-car "super set" with a variety of cool freight cars (some Vision-class offerings) at a whopping $4K MSRP, which I'm thinking dealers might offer as a pre-order for the low $3,000's. How many do you want??? 
The brochure is quite large (62MB PDF), so I only included the cover here. In keeping with recent Lionel locomotive offerings, they're offering quite a number of roadnames... including Erie, Virginian, D&RGW, Northern Pacific, Halloween, Lionel Lines (an LCCA exclusive), and a pilot model.
Since I already own an MTH Triplex from when they first were produced, I could be tempted to grab the Denver & Rio Grande Western "what if" version... as I'm sure the Lionel Legacy Railsounds will be SUPERB on these steamers. ETA is reported to be 2Q-3Q2024. So that's plenty of time to save those pennies.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 12, 2023 1:12:22 GMT
On a side note... I've gotta say I'm AMAZED at the number of big-ticket offerings Lionel is offering these days -- either through its own catalogs or through dealer custom-runs. Given what we've seen recently, I wouldn't be surprised if a dealer or two offered a custom-run roadname and color-scheme. But the last I checked, Lionel's minimum production run is 40 units... which begs the question: how large of a market can support all these different big-ticket locomotives?
Seriously, I was tempted to pre-order Train Loft's yellow/silver D&RGW Lionel Big Boy or their red Katy MTH Premier Challenger. But now I'm glad I didn't... because I just can't afford all these big-ticket temptations.
I know a lot of you folks seem to like MTH's "special announcements" unveiled one day at a time. But THIS is an example where it's much better to have a catalog, so enthusiasts can plan their purchases. Oh well... it's only October 2023... and it looks like I've gotta start penciling in some 2024 deliveries!!! Not too many though!!! 
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Post by Traindiesel! on Oct 12, 2023 3:31:43 GMT
Yeah!! I'll take three!! 
Nah, I also already have the original MTH version which is good enough for me. But good for Lionel to offer this unique locomotive.
David, are you sure the brochure was meant for dealers, or for Warren Buffett??!!
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Post by david1 on Oct 12, 2023 5:00:16 GMT
It will be a very nice engine but the pricing you just posted above David will leave alot of folks on the outside looking in. If your able to afford one I say go for it.
Better look at your triplex Brian, remember mine had zinc rot on the top of the shell and it was expanding when I sold it to a guy who wanted the internals.
Dave
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 12, 2023 6:00:42 GMT
An East Coast dealer has provided a Dropbox link to the full 12 page brochure in advance of an official announcement tomorrow. Unfortunately when I tried to copy and paste the link to it here it did not work but I have seen what David Rockymountainer has.
From this you can see that the main new Vision features compared to the MTH version include a dual sound system, a functioning wheel slip feature based on independent motor control of the TENDER driving wheels (sounds like tech trouble to me), whistle steam and a swinging bell. Plus some now standard Legacy features like bi-color classification/marker lights, whistle and bell sound options and as this is a Vision model road number specific crewtalk.
So feature-packed and exceeds my expectation of Lionel what might do with this tooling. They obviously don’t think that the market for this iconic model is saturated despite MTH doing multiple runs of their version. Pre-order price from this dealer is $2,100 although it might be slightly less from other major dealers when they start announcing their offerings; we’ll see soon enough.
Oh, p.s., there’s a Halloween version with glow-in-the-dark paint applied here and there!
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 12, 2023 16:46:48 GMT
The Halloween version seems to pretty much light up all over the place per the Ryan & Dave video.
I do not run freight so the mega set is out for me but for an Erie fan start saving up.
However as likely as a Halloween purchase may be, the Erie 'Shay' prototype is also tempting.
But one question, what kind if any of special packaging is Lionel going to use with the engine and tender attached per the Ryan & Dave video?
That is going to be fun putting on the track as one unified piece.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 13, 2023 21:52:17 GMT
As predicted, some potential custom-run Triplexes are hitting the scene — the first two from Mr. Muffin’s Trains in U.S. Army variations of Army green: WWI with white-wall trim wheels, and WWII with all-black wheels. No artwork yet, but a deeper discount if preordered this weekend.
Now what are you gonna do? Are you tempted?
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 14, 2023 15:31:27 GMT
For those interested in this jewel, Lionel's Ryan & Dave have a YouTube video highlighting the new features of the upcoming Triplex.
Of note... most likely because this is primarily MTH tooling with newly added Lionel features, 3 models were displayed in the video: the undecorated pilot (which has never caught my eye), one of the Erie models with Russian blue iron boiler, and the spooky Halloween model with special audio effects already implemented. The "wheel slip" feature was also demonstrated and looked cool. So this offering appears pretty far along in terms of production.
BTW... just like the MTH model, Lionel's Triplex will ship with locomotive and tender already assembled. So expect a very long box.
As far as the "super set" offering goes... they did mention the cars are exclusive to the set -- not available in the next catalog as ala carte offerings. Typical Lionel marketing at work there. But I'm not biting, because I'm not willing to pay an extra $1,500+ for 15 freight cars. At $100 each, I can make my own "super set" with existing rolling stock already on my roster. Thank you very much.
If you wanna pre-order one of these Triplex models, you have roughly one month to pre-order your choice through a Lionel dealer... or you can roll the dice and grab what's available (from dealers who order extra's) when this jewel arrives in mid-2024. The D&RGW paint scheme is tempting me, and that's not a roadname I'd expect dealers to purchase in extra quantities. So I'm inclined to pre-order and lock in a "decent" price... and start saving now. 
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 14, 2023 15:51:57 GMT
...
David, are you sure the brochure was meant for dealers, or for Warren Buffett??!! Well, if we're to "believe" Ryan in the Triplex preview video, he stated Lionel's sales team is telling him WE want larger and larger sets. So Ryan is obliging. Personally, I think that's a bit of wishful thinking on the part of Lionel's sales team. My gut says, "What are they smoking?"... but if they sell a boatload of these super sets, then the marketing wizards are gonna keep pushing the envelope further and further.
I can remember when it was a big deal to announce ONE Vision Line model. But in recent years, Lionel has been offering MULTIPLE models in different roadnames... along with dealers jumping in on the custom-run bandwagon. I guess Lionel thinks if they offer them, peeps will buy them. I'd be curious if cataloging so many different roadnames tempts enthusiasts to buy more than one. I'll admit I've been tempted at times, but fortunately common sense prevails when I reach for my wallet.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 15, 2023 7:21:25 GMT
David, are you sure the brochure was meant for dealers, or for Warren Buffet?
I can remember when it was a big deal to announce ONE Vision Line model. But in recent years, Lionel has been offering MULTIPLE models in different roadnames... along with dealers jumping in on the custom-run bandwagon. I guess Lionel thinks if they offer them, peeps will buy them. I'd be curious if cataloging so many different roadnames tempts enthusiasts to buy more than one. I'll admit I've been tempted at times, but fortunately common sense prevails when I reach for my wallet.
I am sure that the price reflects Lionel’s and dealers’ expectations that the Triplex will be a big seller and they are maximizing the revenue from it. My BIG concern would be about build quality and operating reliability. The Veranda was not re-engineered or assembled to a high standard and the last thing anyone wants is loose parts in the fancy VL box!
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Post by keithb on Oct 15, 2023 10:03:27 GMT
Beyond my budget.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 15, 2023 13:30:36 GMT
And most people's. I'm not going to speculate on who Lionel is targeting with products of this kind because that's already been debated at length and the answer seems obvious - at least as to who among us gets left behind with such a strategy.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 15, 2023 17:48:20 GMT
And most people's. I'm not going to speculate on who Lionel is targeting with products of this kind because that's already been debated at length and the answer seems obvious - at least as to who among us gets left behind with such a strategy. I can’t explain Lionel’s strategy at all. Gone are the days when a decent number of enthusiasts could buy ANYTHING in the catalog… and many would phone in significant pre-order lists to their favorite dealer when catalogs were published. Admittedly I was guilty of this 25-30 years ago. But I enjoyed building a wonderful collection, when I was traveling for business and didn’t have a layout back then. But as I noticed prices escalating, I began to wonder who Lionel was marketing to. Clearly I dropped out of the big pre-order segment of the market. So if peeps like me were no longer buying 10-15 high-end products out if a catalog, were their really gonna be 10-15 people who’d pick up the slack by ordering 1 high-end product each? Apparently so, because Lionel’s catalogs just keep getting bigger by each year. Frankly, I’m sure as heck not buying the way I once did. Yet there’s no sign that these offerings are getting less expensive. Heck… they’re not even holding steady. Nor is Lionel cutting back on the number of high end goodies being offered. So I continue to wonder. Then we need to look no further than eBay to see folks ARE paying outlandish prices for products on the secondary market. I was shocked that folks have actually bought Lionel’s NYC Red/Silver Mohawk up near the $2,500 price point, which is clearly Vision Line territory these days. So somebody has deep pockets to pay that price for something that dealers sold for under $1,500 just a year or so ago on pre-order. As long as that keeps happening, Lionel is gonna want to play in this market space. Because their marketing wizards don’t care if small numbers of peeps can no longer afford big pre-order lists. They’re just as happy if large numbers of enthusiasts can buy ONE of these premium-priced offerings. The math seems to be the same or better… and they’re still selling everything they make. Meanwhile, dealers who purchase extra’s are carrying the inventory risk — not Lionel. |
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 15, 2023 18:48:35 GMT
The BTO model has taken the risk out of the manufacturer's balance sheet and placed it firmly into the lap of the consumer. How many recent releases have had mechanical issues; cosmetic issues? Just within the last few moths there have been dust ups over the Trainworld Katy special run diesel, the Lionel AC&W diesel, and even the Lionel Fezziwig Camelback paint jobs/schemes. This is on premium Legacy models not RTR. What is the problem?
Even as these engines are getting more complex, the current technology being used is not without significant performance short falls often enough as to be a concern.
The thought that I am even considering the Halloween version of the Triplex has me thinking I must be off my nut. Forget wheel slippage, I should be back pedaling.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 15, 2023 19:06:41 GMT
Even as these engines are getting more complex, the current technology being used is not without significant performance short falls often enough as to be a concern. The thought that I am even considering the Halloween version of the Triplex has me thinking I must be off my nut. Forget wheel slippage, I should be back pedaling.
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