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Post by nighttrain on May 1, 2023 14:22:51 GMT
Morning. I was looking at a you tube video on basic wiring . This video covered running power to track on lay out. What this video shows is using 12 gauge wire from ZW to track. Black (negative), Red (positive). Every three feet connect a feeder wire from track to main buse run. Use staples on botttom of layout to keep things neat.
Here's my question. This video shows him soldering the bare wires directly to track. I have these "power clips" (Lionel CTC lockon)that are on top of layout that connect to track. Are you guys using clips every three feet? Are you not using clips because you want a more clean, realistic look? BTW, my design is 5' x 10' two loop, 48 loop and 36 loop with two switch sections. Two trains.
I have several crossing gates, street lamps, switchman shack, oil derrick etc. What transformer would you guys recommend for running these items and what gauge wire? 14, 16?
Thank You!!!!!!!
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Post by atsda on May 1, 2023 17:35:23 GMT
Nighttrain, the ZW is fine for your size layout, # of trains, switches, and accessories. You can run trains from the ZW and use the two other posts – one for fixed voltage for switches, and the other for accessories. However, if you get your hands on a lower wattage transformer, you could use it to power the accessories. (If you do get a second transformer, phase it to the ZW. Use a multimeter, not the spark or bulb test.) Lock-ons are fine (I use them all the time. I don’t mind– my layout is a 1950’s retro – for the KW connections.) If you want to hide the connections, you can solder; however, what I now do is the following: I use electrical lamp cord wire (I think this is 8 AWG) from my Lionel V transformer (150W) directly to track. (although you can go through a bus.) I terminate the wires with a circular wire lug by crimping, slightly separate the space on the underside of the rail with a small flat-head screwdriver, and insert the lug and close the rail with a track tool. The wires are fed down through a hole under the track. Right now, I added the V into the layout with two lock-ons at only two points (the layout is 8’ x 22’), and have no problem – no appreciable voltage drop. I also use this V to power 12 O22 switches and run one train off of it. Make sure that you have a good cord and that the breaker works. Alfred
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Post by Sir James on May 1, 2023 17:58:39 GMT
On a layout your size a power drop every three feet is overkill. Go ten ft. If lock-ons are to your liking, then use them. 16 ga wire is enough for that size layout.
Edit: If you put 1 lockon on each side and each end you should be good. If you have a slow spot, then add another.
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Post by david1 on May 1, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
Follow Sir James advice, he is spot on for your size layout.
Dave
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gftiv
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by gftiv on May 2, 2023 10:28:23 GMT
The beauty of using lockon's is that if you have a power drop, All you have to do is add a lockon at the power drop and wire it in
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Post by trainman9 on May 2, 2023 12:14:57 GMT
Since I guess you are just starting if you plan to run any of the modern engines with sound and command control I would highly suggest you install transient voltage suppressors on your ZW transformer. These devices are bidirectional and will protect the electronics from excessive voltage spikes. I would recommend you get ones that will provide protection in the event of a spike above 33 volts. When I get back home I’ll post the actual specs. You can get them from a number of sources including Newark Electronics and others. Cost is about $1.00 each. You should put them on all of the outputs.
There has been extensive literature on voltage spikes and how they can damage sensitive model railroad electronics. ZW transformers have been shown to produce voltage spikes as high as 90 volts.
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Post by BobS2056 on May 2, 2023 12:29:59 GMT
trainman9 could you also post some photos also of what transient voltage suppressors look like Bob
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Post by nighttrain on May 2, 2023 14:03:18 GMT
Thanks guys for the input!!
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Post by trainman9 on May 2, 2023 20:38:42 GMT
trainman9 could you also post some photos also of what transient voltage suppressors look like Bob I can when I get home. Right now I’m at our home in Duck NC. I’ll post a photo and also the specs. If anyone wants to read the full report done by the DC Hirailers I can do that also or just provide a link which ever makes sense.
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Post by firewood on May 3, 2023 16:46:50 GMT
I solder directly to the track, but lock-ons are fine - just a matter of preference.
Dave
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Post by trainman9 on May 8, 2023 19:01:04 GMT
 Hi, I’ve attached a photo of a Transient Voltage Suppressor. One wire is attached to the U post and the other to the corresponding A/B/C/D posts. On other transformers one wire on positive and the other wire on the negative post. I recommend the following specs: 1.5KE33CA This will protect and power spike above 33 volts and will protect most MTH and Lionel engines.
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Post by roadrunner440 on May 9, 2023 22:50:40 GMT
Nighttrain, the ZW is fine for your size layout, # of trains, switches, and accessories. You can run trains from the ZW and use the two other posts – one for fixed voltage for switches, and the other for accessories. However, if you get your hands on a lower wattage transformer, you could use it to power the accessories. (If you do get a second transformer, phase it to the ZW. Use a multimeter, not the spark or bulb test.) Lock-ons are fine (I use them all the time. I don’t mind– my layout is a 1950’s retro – for the KW connections.) If you want to hide the connections, you can solder; however, what I now do is the following: I use electrical lamp cord wire (I think this is 8 AWG) from my Lionel V transformer (150W) directly to track. (although you can go through a bus.) I terminate the wires with a circular wire lug by crimping, slightly separate the space on the underside of the rail with a small flat-head screwdriver, and insert the lug and close the rail with a track tool. The wires are fed down through a hole under the track. Right now, I added the V into the layout with two lock-ons at only two points (the layout is 8’ x 22’), and have no problem – no appreciable voltage drop. I also use this V to power 12 O22 switches and run one train off of it. Make sure that you have a good cord and that the breaker works. Alfred I USE 2 POSTWAR ZW 'S FOR MY TWO OUTSIDE TRACKS IN 042 AND 054. THAT GIVES ME 208 WATTS FOR EACH LINE. I USE A LIONEL V (150 WATTS) FOR ALL LITES AND A RW AND R FOR ACCERORIES. MY BACKUP FOR MY 072 TRESELL (11 FT) AND ELEVATED LOOP IS A KW. MY SW FROM WHEN I WAS A KID OPERATES MILK AND BOSCO CARS. THE ZW'S REALLY DO THE JOB AS MY STRAIGHTS ALONE ARE 15 FT. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH POWER IN CONVENTIONAL MODE.
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Post by david1 on May 10, 2023 2:43:09 GMT
I use a ZW/275 for all my modern engines and I use a 10 amp fast blow fuse on each output. It works!! The transient voltage suppressor are fine too.
Dave
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Post by firewood on May 13, 2023 23:49:41 GMT
I use a ZW/275 for all my modern engines and I use a 10 amp fast blow fuse on each output. It works!! The transient voltage suppressor are fine too. Dave I am in the process of adding TVS diodes to each of my power blocks, but haven’t added the quick breakers yet. (I run conventional only) What’s your recommendation for the 10A breakers? Dave
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Post by atsda on May 15, 2023 2:19:29 GMT
Post by roadrunner440 on May 9, 2023 at 6:50pm: “I USE 2 POSTWAR ZW 'S FOR MY TWO OUTSIDE TRACKS IN 042 AND 054. THAT GIVES ME 208 WATTS FOR EACH LINE. I USE A LIONEL V (150 WATTS) FOR ALL LITES AND A RW AND R FOR ACCERORIES. MY BACKUP FOR MY 072 TRESELL (11 FT) AND ELEVATED LOOP IS A KW. MY SW FROM WHEN I WAS A KID OPERATES MILK AND BOSCO CARS. THE ZW'S REALLY DO THE JOB AS MY STRAIGHTS ALONE ARE 15 FT. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH POWER IN CONVENTIONAL MODE.”
Roadrunner440, Nice power set-up. Surprisingly, my KW was having difficulty handling heavy steam freights. So, I put the B post on the V transformer to the track, and have good success. I can however, toggle that post or the A or B on the KW into the track system to meet different train needs. Alfred (I run exclusively early post war Lionel.)
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