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Post by madockawando on Jan 15, 2023 22:13:03 GMT
We are talking about discretionary spending. The prices in the Lionel catalog are based on rising costs for Lionel to produce the trains and, most importantly, what the market will pay. I predict that next July, when the Lionel 2023 volume II catalog comes out there will be another thread about high prices. I for one, am glad that we still have one full service O gauge manufacturer like Lionel to keep the hobby going. Lionel seems to be doing well and that's good news for us. I also also appreciate MTH's current business plan of small uncatalogued releases. It's fun to get the latest email from MTH with new and upcoming uncatalogued releases. I also appreciate the variety trains from Atlas. I have a growing collection from both MTH and Atlas but neither of them is capable of anchoring the O gauge hobby like Lionel.
We need all three and each has their roll to play. We should not expect Atlas, MTH and Lionel to have the same approach to the market. Let's enjoy them all and be happy they are here!
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Post by josef on Jan 15, 2023 22:36:53 GMT
I been back in the hobby for about 7 years now and every Lionel catalog brings out the same hue and cry: "Lionel's prices are too high!" Yet, Lionel is still here and doing fine. Yes, prices have gone up just like the price of everything else. The trains Lionel are offering are certainly more advanced now as compared to few years ago. As for prices, I buy from Atlas, Lionel and MTH and I don't see enough of a price difference as compared to Lionel to justify the level of hand wringing twice a year we must endure when the catalog comes out. ... With all due respect, different folks see the market differently. And that's fine. Once or twice a year, it's good to look at the marketplace and analyze observations and trends. And I would suggest that it's not always the same hue and cry about prices. If it seems that way, than you're missing the point. I don't say the things I say with the expectation that Lionel will change their prices... nor do I provide some pricing analysis in an attempt to influence anyone's buying habits. In fact, I don't care what folks might or might not buy... nor how they spend their money. That's their business to enjoy the hobby the way they want to.
However, that's not to say it isn't healthy to "remind" importers that we -- as enthusiastic hobbyists -- demand quality products for our hard-earned dollars. For example, there's no way to defend Lionel's recent Black River & Western passenger coach debacle. Nor is there any defense when overseas factories miss the mark on color as often as they have in recent years. These are often expensive BTO products that need a pre-order commitment SIGHT UNSEEN. That wasn't the case years and decades ago when prices were more realistic.
Then there's the trend that is nothing short of price-gouging, when tooling from one importer (typically MTH) is purchased by another importer (typically Lionel or Atlas)... and the resulting new prices are instantly and obscenely higher than those of the former owner. Lots of examples of this recently. But the worst offenders are the new Lionel 64' wood coach passenger cars and the new Lionel bobber cabooses that are now orders of magnitude higher than exact product offerings under the MTH brand.
Naturally, some moderators and most fanboys are quick to call this out as "bashing"... when nothing could be further from the truth. More to the point, buyers are spending premium dollars now. And in neither of the cases noted above is their any bashing going on -- simply objective observations of fact. Along with these observations, we also don't hesitate to call out the with the bad to balance the analysis... much like Lionel's recent Class A steam locomotive as well as the dynamite job done with the recently delivered Aberdeen Carolina & Western F9 AB units whose color is off-the-chart spot-on.
Bottom line... prices are an integral part of the buying decision today. And if you don't believe that, you're not being honest with yourself. O-Gauge trains has ALWAYS been a hobby for those blessed with varying degrees of disposable incomes. But I think it's safe to conclude that today's prices are pushing the envelope into a territory, where even the most die-hard enthusiasts are thinking twice about buying everything that they see. We all have our limits, and we all enjoy the hobby in different ways at different points along the journey.
Very well said and written.
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Post by RickyTanner on Jan 16, 2023 15:31:00 GMT
The last new Lionel Locomotive I purchased was the first run Vision Big Boy. It was something to behold, beautiful to look at, but a technical and operational nightmare. It failed on its first run. Three trips back and forth for warranty repairs and it never, ever worked properly. I ended up getting rid of it within the first month at a loss and have never been back. I have the JLC Big Boy from years ago which was made in Korea and still runs fine as my other two dozen or so scale "keepers' from the 2000-2010 "Pre Legacy" timeframe.
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Post by madockawando on Jan 16, 2023 16:04:10 GMT
The latest brand new Lionel locomotives that I purchased were the Canadian Pacific Veteran tribute locomotives #7022 and #7023. Outstanding locomotives! they run great with each pulling a mix of Canadian road name rolling stock from Atlas and Lionel. Taking a break from any locomotives in the catalog so the only big item I am waiting for is a special MTH run of the Maine Central and Quebec locomotive #1002 from EZ-Catch train shop. The light blue, grey and off white color scheme with the moose head logo is stunning. e-zcatch.square.site/product/eta-summer-2023-custom-mth-premier-central-maine-quebec-ac-4400-cab-1002/304
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