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Post by josef on Oct 31, 2022 22:40:07 GMT
I like the color of this one. Hopefully they will become a hit and provide an avenue for affordable under the tree layouts or one to get the kids interested. Just wonder if that capacitor is a fluke or his use of up to 24Volts was a problem?
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 31, 2022 23:59:15 GMT
This ought to be raised with Menards although I can’t see any reason why you’d need as much as 24 VAC on a layout. Don’t know what transformer he was using but even with a ZW-L I seldom find that there is as much as 18 VAC measured on the track itself as opposed to what the gauges say or the levers indicate or indeed the output at the binding posts measures. More often it is 16 VAC, which I regard as within a safe margin given that the Legacy standard is no more than 19 VAC. I suppose it might depend on what track you are using; I use K-Line/RMT SuperSnap and I know over a long run there can be significant voltage drops.
Swapping over the capacitor is simple enough but this is not what the ordinary consumer expects to or can do.
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Post by david1 on Nov 1, 2022 3:53:38 GMT
I never go over 16 volts on my transformer when using command, all engines work perfectly. No need for 24 volts at all.
Dave
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Post by highvoltage on Nov 1, 2022 10:07:35 GMT
I like the color of this one. Hopefully they will become a hit and provide an avenue for affordable under the tree layouts or one to get the kids interested. Just wonder if that capacitor is a fluke or his use of up to 24Volts was a problem?
Voltage is not the issue, he mentions that it's a 50 volt capacitor.
The issue is the fact that it's polarized, i.e., meant for DC circuits only. According to him Menards should have used a non-polarized capacitor.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Nov 1, 2022 10:08:03 GMT
The guy who posted on YouTube says he is using a Lionel LW transformer applying 18 VAC constant voltage to the track. My understanding is that the LW is a postwar design intended for conventional control operation, and many people use it only for accessory power. (It’s rated at 125 watts and is slightly quirky as the posts are labeled the opposite way to most Lionel transformers, with A being the outside rail connection and U the center or hot rail.)
That said, the capacitor in his dummy unit was designed for DC operation and maybe it is a design or manufacturing error installing it in an AC powered engine. In any case, it went up in smoke and I would not be surprised if that happens in other units which are equipped the same way. This may be an issue for Menards; we’ll see how things develop.
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Post by dennym57 on Nov 1, 2022 14:14:50 GMT
I'll pass. The sad thing is, a inexperienced person wouldn't know what to look for and when they take it back they just get other one that has the same problem. Menards employees are not trained for repairs.
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Post by Adam on Nov 1, 2022 14:31:09 GMT
Im certain Menards will solve it. Its still a BETA.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Nov 1, 2022 14:56:51 GMT
I'll pass. The sad thing is, a inexperienced person wouldn't know what to look for and when they take it back they just get other one that has the same problem. Menards employees are not trained for repairs. I'd already decided to pass as I only want Legacy or DCS at this point and not another handheld remote. However, I have seen cases where it's obvious that the factory worker just grabbed the nearest available part that looked like it would fit/work and used it in the assembly. I hope that's the case here rather than the design spec being for a DC capacitor so that all these units have it. My own limited experience with feeding AC to components designed for DC power is that they are inevitably smoked in the process!
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Post by josef on Nov 1, 2022 19:40:39 GMT
He doesn't show the board, so I wasn't sure if there is a rectifier in it or not. Thinking that the lighting on this would be also DC, I didn't connect the capacitor being DC without a rectifier and still wonder if there is a rectifier in the board. Nowadays, they are very small and have over a dozen I have used in lighting of structures. So I wasn't going to jump on the wrong DC Capacitor but did wonder about how much AC current he's feeding the rails.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Nov 1, 2022 20:39:15 GMT
He doesn't show the board, so I wasn't sure if there is a rectifier in it or not. Thinking that the lighting on this would be also DC, I didn't connect the capacitor being DC without a rectifier and still wonder if there is a rectifier in the board. Nowadays, they are very small and have over a dozen I have used in lighting of structures. So I wasn't going to jump on the wrong DC Capacitor but did wonder about how much AC current he's feeding the rails. Fair point about a rectifier. Freeze-framing the video, I can't see a rectifier or anything other than that the capacitor seems to be wired wired to track power - at least as regards the red (presumably center rail) wire. I took the video maker to be explaining that the capacitor only had AC input. If so, I'm puzzled by the fact that as far as I can tell, the head/tail/marker lights are all LEDs, which would require DC. Not sure what gives here . . . how could a DC capacitor receiving AC supply DC to LEDs? I would have thought that the LEDs would blow even before the capacitor.
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Post by josef on Nov 1, 2022 21:37:15 GMT
He doesn't show the board, so I wasn't sure if there is a rectifier in it or not. Thinking that the lighting on this would be also DC, I didn't connect the capacitor being DC without a rectifier and still wonder if there is a rectifier in the board. Nowadays, they are very small and have over a dozen I have used in lighting of structures. So I wasn't going to jump on the wrong DC Capacitor but did wonder about how much AC current he's feeding the rails. Fair point about a rectifier. Freeze-framing the video, I can't see a rectifier or anything other than that the capacitor seems to be wired wired to track power - at least as regards the red (presumably center rail) wire. I took the video maker to be explaining that the capacitor only had AC input. If so, I'm puzzled by the fact that as far as I can tell, the head/tail/marker lights are all LEDs, which would require DC. Not sure what gives here . . . how could a DC capacitor receiving AC supply DC to LEDs? I would have thought that the LEDs would blow even before the capacitor. That was my thinking otherwise, it was wired wrong and as said here, capacitor was accidently wired directly to AC instead of a rectifier. But the voltage he stated was high if he said it correctly. We'll have to wait and see.
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Post by stoshu on Nov 2, 2022 1:49:10 GMT
It was a good catch on his part. what is the circuit board for ? Looks like a lot of wiring for a couple LED lights. I'll look at mine tomorrow.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Nov 2, 2022 12:17:45 GMT
It was a good catch on his part. what is the circuit board for ? Looks like a lot of wiring for a couple LED lights. I'll look at mine tomorrow.
Yeah, I wondered about all the wiring, including a number of chassis ground connections? This is a dummy unit, with no sound, so I’m guessing the wiring must be only for the lights. Unfortunately, on the YouTuber’s channel some more reports of this same issue have appeared. But I have not seen it reported elsewhere - yet.
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Post by stoshu on Nov 3, 2022 13:17:28 GMT
If you want to see the smoke. ( it's pretty bad ) check out the video at about the 9 minute mark.
link
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Post by Adam on Nov 3, 2022 14:16:05 GMT
And that’s not the good kind of smoke either.
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