ben
New Member
Posts: 27
|
Post by ben on Oct 15, 2022 13:00:30 GMT
On a less positive note,
the issue of Lionel botching color schemes is not getting better. Someone recently posted a picture of a neon orange EJ&E ES44 on the OGR asking for help, and the moderator arrogantly deleted the post
Lionel's brutal color choices has been a chronic problem for years, and there is absolutely no excuse for it,...none. If they can't take a preproduction sample of the model and reasonably compare the colors to the prototype or graphic art, they have absolutely no business asking the exorbitant prices for their product. Not sure if this gap in product development is caused by cost cutting, incompetence, and just plain laziness
To make matters worse, with the BTO scheme, many vendors will fight with you if you try to return a botched Lionel paint scheme
|
|
|
Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 15, 2022 15:31:31 GMT
…. To make matters worse, with the BTO scheme, many vendors will fight with you if you try to return a botched Lionel paint scheme Earlier this year… after Lionel published its catalog with the N&W Class A steamer, Mr. Muffin’s Trains offered a special-run Pennsy version that I thought would be a nice addition to my Pennsy locomotive collection. So I sent Steve a photo of a recent Lionel Vision Line GG-1 in Brunswick Green — highlighting that’s the color to be used for the new Class A too. Lionel CAN get colors correct with the right level of attention on any given project. And the big-ticket items deserve nothing but the BEST attention. Bottom line: I told Steve right up front… if Lionel can’t produce the Class A with the same Brunswick Green used on their GG-1, then don’t even bother sending me the locomotive. I know he “got the message”. I’m just hoping Lionel does as well.
|
|
|
Post by JKP on Oct 15, 2022 16:01:14 GMT
While I like my recent WP 2-8-0 purchase, the catalog shows a tender with a coal load, it came with an oil tender........
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 15, 2022 16:03:05 GMT
While I like my recent WP 2-8-0 purchase, the catalog shows a tender with a coal load, it came with an oil tender........ Wow. You could not make this stuff up.
|
|
|
Post by curtis on Oct 15, 2022 16:11:05 GMT
g3750 Said "Lionel didn't pioneer the new "21st century business model". MTH was the first to go to strictly BTO, gut its repair service, shove warranty issues completely onto the LHS, lose the catalogs, ditch the supply warehouse, and (in the process) damage the business models of a number of hobby shops that depended upon them. Some of these went out of business due to the uncertainty created" Incorrect sir. MTH does still make non BTO items thru them and special runs thru their dealers. Also I remember within the last two years trying to send a NEW product back to LIONEL for Warranty out of the box repairs to be told they were not taking any repairs including WARRANTY! This also caused problems with LHS as they couldn't even get LIONEL SUPPORT and ended up closing as this was the final straw with them and LIONEL. SO yes even LIONEL train Hobby Shops closed due to Lionel's business practices. Bad Quality, Wrong Color, Non working products out of the box is BAD BUSINESS whoever does it but let us keep the FACTS STRAIGHT! Will I still buy Lionel, MTH and others - YES. Do I like their practices? NO Especially Lionel after stopping ALL repair work on even new out of the box problems. Also MTH still has a supply house just not as big.
|
|
|
Post by dlagrua on Oct 16, 2022 15:48:39 GMT
If Lionel is eliminating their warranty completely, then why would a hobbyist continue to purchase their products? Business survives on quality, reliability, dependability and competitiveness. Without those core principles of business no company can survive.
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 16, 2022 16:58:45 GMT
If Lionel is eliminating their warranty completely, then why would a hobbyist continue to purchase their products? Business survives on quality, reliability, dependability and competitiveness. Without those core principles of business no company can survive. I don’t think that state laws allow them to eliminate the warranty altogether but exactly how they service genuine warranty claims is another matter. I understood that a while back they put a hold on dealing with warranty repairs for some temporary reason I can’t remember, but did not say they would not comply with their (limited) product warranty. That said, I agree that no business that persistently disappoints its customers with defective products and fails to remedy the defects is going to thrive, however loyal its customer base has been in the past.
Can anyone imagine this happening when Mike Reagan was still onboard? I never knew or asked him why he left Lionel as abruptly as he did but I’d guess it had to do with management/owners deciding to downgrade customer service.
|
|
|
Post by david1 on Oct 16, 2022 18:17:41 GMT
On a less positive note, the issue of Lionel botching color schemes is not getting better. Someone recently posted a picture of a neon orange EJ&E ES44 on the OGR asking for help, and the moderator arrogantly deleted the post Lionel's brutal color choices has been a chronic problem for years, and there is absolutely no excuse for it,...none. If they can't take a preproduction sample of the model and reasonably compare the colors to the prototype or graphic art, they have absolutely no business asking the exorbitant prices for their product. Not sure if this gap in product development is caused by cost cutting, incompetence, and just plain laziness To make matters worse, with the BTO scheme, many vendors will fight with you if you try to return a botched Lionel paint scheme I saw that post the other day and the paint was much brighter than it should have been and the post to me was not controversial. Why they would delete it is strange but not unusual considering how it is run. God forbid you ever criticize Lionel!! If I was that gentlemen it would be going back to the dealer. Dave
|
|
|
Post by g3750 on Oct 18, 2022 3:44:47 GMT
g3750 Said "Lionel didn't pioneer the new "21st century business model". MTH was the first to go to strictly BTO, gut its repair service, shove warranty issues completely onto the LHS, lose the catalogs, ditch the supply warehouse, and (in the process) damage the business models of a number of hobby shops that depended upon them. Some of these went out of business due to the uncertainty created" Incorrect sir. MTH does still make non BTO items thru them and special runs thru their dealers. Also I remember within the last two years trying to send a NEW product back to LIONEL for Warranty out of the box repairs to be told they were not taking any repairs including WARRANTY! This also caused problems with LHS as they couldn't even get LIONEL SUPPORT and ended up closing as this was the final straw with them and LIONEL. SO yes even LIONEL train Hobby Shops closed due to Lionel's business practices. Bad Quality, Wrong Color, Non working products out of the box is BAD BUSINESS whoever does it but let us keep the FACTS STRAIGHT! Will I still buy Lionel, MTH and others - YES. Do I like their practices? NO Especially Lionel after stopping ALL repair work on even new out of the box problems. Also MTH still has a supply house just not as big. I stand 100% by my statement.
I'm not defending Lionel, particularly their color fiascos but they have not stopped doing warranty repairs. They did call a halt to that while they moved their operation, but they've not stopped doing repairs permanently. As for the rest of it, I'm not going to argue with you. Frankly, you're just wrong.
George
|
|
|
Post by curtis on Oct 19, 2022 19:20:02 GMT
g3750 Said "Lionel didn't pioneer the new "21st century business model". MTH was the first to go to strictly BTO, gut its repair service, shove warranty issues completely onto the LHS, lose the catalogs, ditch the supply warehouse, and (in the process) damage the business models of a number of hobby shops that depended upon them. Some of these went out of business due to the uncertainty created" Incorrect sir. MTH does still make non BTO items thru them and special runs thru their dealers. Also I remember within the last two years trying to send a NEW product back to LIONEL for Warranty out of the box repairs to be told they were not taking any repairs including WARRANTY! This also caused problems with LHS as they couldn't even get LIONEL SUPPORT and ended up closing as this was the final straw with them and LIONEL. SO yes even LIONEL train Hobby Shops closed due to Lionel's business practices. Bad Quality, Wrong Color, Non working products out of the box is BAD BUSINESS whoever does it but let us keep the FACTS STRAIGHT! Will I still buy Lionel, MTH and others - YES. Do I like their practices? NO Especially Lionel after stopping ALL repair work on even new out of the box problems. Also MTH still has a supply house just not as big. I stand 100% by my statement.
I'm not defending Lionel, particularly their color fiascos but they have not stopped doing warranty repairs. They did call a halt to that while they moved their operation, but they've not stopped doing repairs permanently. As for the rest of it, I'm not going to argue with you. Frankly, you're just wrong.
George
George Trust me I am not offended or going to argue. Go to Trainworld and watch Both the videos with Mike Wolf and Tuesday nights video with Rich and Andy. And YES you are correct warranty repairs were stopped only temporarily but it was for more than a couple months.
You, Like me are both able to have opinions. Some bleed one manufacturer only where I do not. I was and still offended by how Lionel treats their customers, present and those that they lost. I respect your answers and only say why argue? Enjoy trains for whatever you can get out of them! Life is too short to get worked up over facts and hear say!
Curtis
When leading ducks in a row, make correct turns or a lot of ducks will be in the wrong place when flying! If following enjoy the views!
|
|
|
Post by chipset35 on Oct 20, 2022 12:43:41 GMT
Let's think positive about the future of our command control equipment Two years ago everyone was talking about the demise of DCS and Proto Sound 3, yet these devices are still in production with no end on sight TMCC has been around for decades is outdated, yet it is still licensed out and in production under ERR The market will find a way to keep these command control models running I have operated dozens of Legacy and DCS controlled locomotives over the last decades and I have seen only one board failure, and that may have had outside causes. I run these models all the time. Good points. I hope you are right. If you are, I think it will be someone other than Lionel that makes it so. That’s my gripe, FWIW. Very good points!
|
|
|
Post by chipset35 on Oct 20, 2022 12:45:40 GMT
I bought williams engines in the 90's and early 2000's but at that time I got enamored with command control and for that reason I packed all my new Williams away and forgot about it. In the 2015 range I sold off alot of my command equipment but keeping a few for when I built another layout. Well fast forward to now and the prices that Lionel wants for New engines is absurd. I decided this year to pull out my Williams and was I surprised, they run so smooth and quiet I was glad to run them. I still have a few legacy engines I bought and run them also with my tmcc system. They run and sound great but I also run conventional with my Williams. I have no need to buy anymore overpriced trains from any manufacturer. I'm having fun doing what I do, why change. Dave Refresh my memory, is there a way to re-wire williams engines so they run smoother instead of being either fast or fast? Series wiring?
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 20, 2022 13:13:36 GMT
I bought williams engines in the 90's and early 2000's but at that time I got enamored with command control and for that reason I packed all my new Williams away and forgot about it. In the 2015 range I sold off alot of my command equipment but keeping a few for when I built another layout. Well fast forward to now and the prices that Lionel wants for New engines is absurd. I decided this year to pull out my Williams and was I surprised, they run so smooth and quiet I was glad to run them. I still have a few legacy engines I bought and run them also with my tmcc system. They run and sound great but I also run conventional with my Williams. I have no need to buy anymore overpriced trains from any manufacturer. I'm having fun doing what I do, why change. Dave Refresh my memory, is there a way to re-wire williams engines so they run smoother instead of being either fast or fast? Series wiring?
The short answer is yes, series instead of the stock parallel. This is a "how to" video I once watched for educational purposes - I have not used conventional control for years and have no Williams powered units.
|
|
|
Post by chipset35 on Oct 21, 2022 16:32:39 GMT
Awesome thanks!
|
|
|
Post by quietman on Nov 8, 2022 5:26:04 GMT
Notice since Mike sold parts of MTH and rolled back the amount of products being introduced, Lionel has started sliding down the crapper at an increasing rate? Too bad there's no more real competition for sales.
|
|