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Post by Traindiesel! on Sept 25, 2022 6:36:55 GMT
Before this information came out how many were really worried about getting parts for their locomotives?
They are not going to all of a sudden break down. Nature abhors a vacuum. Some entity will fill the void to provide what is needed, either with current parts or new upgrades. Probably better ones than what’s available now.
Release your fears and enjoy running your trains!
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Post by harborbelt70 on Sept 25, 2022 7:00:41 GMT
Before this information came out how many were really worried about getting parts for their locomotives?
They are not going to all of a sudden break down. Nature abhors a vacuum. Some entity will fill the void to provide what is needed, either with current parts or new upgrades. Probably better ones than what’s available now.
Release your fears and enjoy running your trains! I'll put my hand up. At the last Lionel parts 50% off sale, I got various control boards for early Legacy engines - particularly the VL GE Evo and the original 2-10-10-2 AT&SF 3000. The latter had to be worked on by an expert when I first got it NIB in the secondary market. Of course, the parts I chose might not be the ones that eventually fail but I judged they were likely to be the ones most likely to be unavailable in the future because of model-specific code/sounds.
I'm not going to let any engine I particularly like turn into a shelf queen if I can possibly avoid it. One consequence of Lionel's policy is that the expert repair options may become much more limited than they already are because parts will become harder to source. I hope I'm wrong and you're right, Brian, about a vacuum being filled!
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Post by Traindiesel! on Sept 25, 2022 7:16:15 GMT
Before this information came out how many were really worried about getting parts for their locomotives?
They are not going to all of a sudden break down. Nature abhors a vacuum. Some entity will fill the void to provide what is needed, either with current parts or new upgrades. Probably better ones than what’s available now.
Release your fears and enjoy running your trains! ……I'm not going to let any engine I particularly like turn into a shelf queen if I can possibly avoid it. One consequence of Lionel's policy is that the expert repair options may become much more limited than they already are because parts will become harder to source. I hope I'm wrong and you're right, Brian, about a vacuum being filled! That’s the thing. Lionel (and all the other importers) get parts from some other manufacturer. If said manufacturer decides to no longer make the parts there’s not much Lionel or the other importers can do. (MTH and their DCS and Z4000 parts issues, for example).
It may take some time but I believe there will be future solutions for repairs. With the size of my locomotive collection, there better be! I’m sure there are some surprises waiting for me with my engines that haven’t seen the light of day yet.
If in the future something breaks down I’ll just have the latest available technology installed.
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Post by ptc on Sept 25, 2022 14:26:15 GMT
"If in the future something breaks down I’ll just have the latest available technology installed."
May be costly, but it is an excellent option. I agree with you, Brian.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Sept 25, 2022 15:57:40 GMT
"If in the future something breaks down I’ll just have the latest available technology installed."May be costly, but it is an excellent option. I agree with you, Brian. Yeah, things definitely don’t get cheaper in this hobby, that’s for sure.
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Post by curtis on Sept 29, 2022 21:04:14 GMT
Since Lionel will not release Legacy to Atlas, I wonder what they will use now. At least they have DCS to fall back on.
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Post by dlagrua on Sept 30, 2022 1:50:33 GMT
Since Lionel will not release Legacy to Atlas, I wonder what they will use now. At least they have DCS to fall back on. We haven't seen all that much from Atlas on introducing new products in the last few years. IMO, they have really pulled back from the O gauge market. What they do show in their catalog are TMCC controlled engines so they still must be licensed.
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Post by curtis on Oct 1, 2022 1:01:34 GMT
Since Lionel will not release Legacy to Atlas, I wonder what they will use now. At least they have DCS to fall back on. We haven't seen all that much from Atlas on introducing new products in the last few years. IMO, they have really pulled back from the O gauge market. What they do show in their catalog are TMCC controlled engines so they still must be licensed. I agree but if Lionel is stopping TMCC Due to availability of parts to make them how can Atlas proceed to get parts to make them? Seems someone is not being 100% truthful or Atlas will only have DCS. I also agree Atlas seems to be more into HO than O, but the HO and N market are both bigger than O. BUT, they did buy some MTH molds so that is a plus. Seems like a lot of But to me. LOL
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Post by david1 on Oct 1, 2022 4:22:05 GMT
Hey there is always conventional!!!!!
Dave
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 1, 2022 6:46:53 GMT
Hey there is always conventional!!!!! Dave Another option for Atlas models is ERR if you want TMCC control, but that only seems to be a user conversion/installation route and not one for manufacturing. As I understand the position, as explained by Scott Mann himself recently in the light of the furor over Lionel’s decision, 3rd Rail is the exclusive license-holder for making and selling ERR components and is obliged to use a manufacturer chosen by Lionel. He said that 3rd Rail has stocked up a supply of components like the Cruise Commander but eventually due to parts obsolescence they won’t be made any more. Still, they are being made now and remain available for individual purchase. Thinking about the longer-term implications of this, it might effectively force third party suppliers who once were licensed to use TMCC out of the command control market unless they can opt to use DCS, which is a very big “if.” I don’t see any sign of Lionel allowing Legacy to be used by any third party. All of this is a total bummer for the hobby and no wonder people are considering going over to 2-rail DCC and/or HO. I also don’t see any sign of Lionel coming out from under their corporate rock to explain/defend their decision. Don’t get me wrong - I don’t want to see Lionel disappear and I don’t think it will but the handling of the decision to move out of supporting/supplying TMCC and early Legacy components has left many people feeling betrayed, and brand loyalty is always a two way street.
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Post by kanawha on Oct 1, 2022 15:20:17 GMT
The last Master Line Atlas engine I bought was a U23B. It is equipped with ERR motor and sound boards. I assume their latest release GP7's also use ERR. I have no idea whether Atlas orders their boards through Scott or if they work directly with the contractor that actually makes them. That may be one of the reasons it takes Atlas so ridiculously long between announcement of a new Master diesel and actual delivery.
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Post by ptc on Oct 1, 2022 15:33:31 GMT
"I have no idea whether Atlas orders their boards through Scott or if they work directly with the contractor that actually makes them"
My guess is Scott controls this market as he should since he took all the risk and took the line on from Lionel.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 1, 2022 18:08:05 GMT
"I have no idea whether Atlas orders their boards through Scott or if they work directly with the contractor that actually makes them"My guess is Scott controls this market as he should since he took all the risk and took the line on from Lionel. Atlas could also have accumulated a stock of ERR products, as I expect 3rd Rail has because these products won’t be available indefinitely. In any case, if Lionel wants to divert everybody in 3rail O scale into Legacy products that only they supply (my hunch as to the business motive for all this) I hope it does not work.
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Post by ptc on Oct 1, 2022 21:06:00 GMT
Andy, we are currently working with Scott on the Rail Inspection Car project and he has an excellent inventory.
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Post by david1 on Oct 2, 2022 2:08:40 GMT
So every 5-10 years or so parts for the those previous years will be eliminated and need for some other company to get the parts made and stored. What happens to the parts say from 2000-2011, will they be kept till they run out or will it be just tough luck after a certain date. It seems with quality problems, paint problems and now no clarification about parts Lionel seems to be walking themselves into something they may not be able to get out of. I know of 6 guys who will no longer buy old TMCC and older Legacy models. Put the dealers with older stock out of business and force the buyers to buy the newer high priced items. Then what happens to the guys who cannot afford or want to buy those high priced items. I think alot will just run what they have or just leave the hobby. Its never been a cheap hobby but it seems Lionel is going for the upper 10%+ of society and leaving everyone else with cheaply made products with low bid mfgs.
Is it a good business model to pursue or is it fools gold to make higher and higher profits. WE SHALL SEE!!!!
Dave
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