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Post by af3020 on May 29, 2023 15:31:25 GMT
The curious case of the two faced reefer. Back when billboard reefers were a part of the railroad landscape one could see a wide variety of reefers sporting very colorful ads for any number of items. Most of the reefers had the same ad on both sides of the car but there were a number of companies who opted to have different ads for their product on opposite sides of the same car. An example of this prototype practice is illustrated with the Atlas model of the Nuckoll's reefer. Side A is an ad for their Ham and Bacon  ...and Side B is an ad for their Lard  As it turns out, the prototype practice of having the same ad on both sides or having different ads on opposite sides of a billboard reefer was captured by American Flyer with their series of 4 wheel Morris & Co. Reefers Side A  Side B  At this late date it is impossible to know if this was a conscious effort on the part of American Flyer or if it was just a result of a desire to quickly manufacture inexpensive 4 wheel cars. What is known is the sides for the cars were stamped out and delivered to the assembly line in open top boxes. The assemblers would reach into the box, pull out two sides, and assemble a car. The end result could be a reefer with a mixture of one of 6 different ads on either side of the car or a reefer with the same ad on both sides. In the above pictures Side A illustrates 4 of the six ads and Side B illustrates the other two. The upper right and lower left cars in Side B have different ads on Side A but the same ad on side B and the car in the lower right of both pictures has the same ad on both sides. Morris & Co. was a large meatpacker in Chicago and, according to various internet sources, did have a fleet of reefers. Unfortunately, I've never managed to find a picture of one of the actual cars (one can find pictures of "models" of Morris reefers on the internet but all of these appear to be flights of fancy) so, while the Morris logo on the American Flyer Cars is a match for the real thing, I don't know if the rest of the Flyer litho mirrors fact or is just fantasy. It may seem odd to even wonder about this but there are a number of instances where the tinplate lithography of a toy boxcar either exactly matched the real thing or was a very close approximation. A good example of this is the match between the American Flyer ART reefer and the Atlas model of the same thing. American Flyer  Atlas Model 
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Post by atsda on May 30, 2023 1:14:18 GMT
AF320, Thanks for the informative and descriptive summary about box car lithography. I found it interesting and having good detail about tinplate. Alfred By the way, I just made the connection about your handle – American Flyer No. 3020 – 1922 copy of NYC Class T that served out of Grand Central Terminal.
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Post by af3020 on May 30, 2023 12:56:45 GMT
atsda - yup, that's it. The first time I saw one of these at a train meet I knew I had to locate one for myself.
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Post by af3020 on Jun 7, 2023 14:05:53 GMT
The Interface between Prototype and Toy There are many instances where the manufacturers of tinplate trains took a look at the world of the prototype, borrowed some or almost all of what they saw, and applied it to their toy train offerings. A case in point is the MDT Merchant Despatch car. The real cars were painted white with blue and red bands around the bottom. Over the years they came with a variety of side markings. One version carried the NYC logo.  Another version (this from the book Billboard Refrigerator Cars by Hendrickson and Kaminski) simply had advertising for the MDT company.  American Flyer seems to have been interested in railroad logos and "fidelity" to markings of later MDT production cars  whereas Ives went for the earlier treatment and produced a car that is almost an exact match for the prototype.  It is worth noting that the book picture dates from 1890. It is also worth noting Commodore Vanderbilt bought MDT in 1871 - this before they began building reefers. The picture of the Atlas car side would suggest at some point the NYC wanted credit for shipping and changed the logo as shown above. I don't have any information concerning when this might have happened in the real world but I do know the lithography for the Ives car was first offered in 1910 whereas the American Flyer car was first offered in 1925. In addition to this, the red/white/blue bottom stripes were reserved for MDT's premium cars. Consequently, what we might have here is a case of two toys that are actually close copies of the real thing with Ives being true to the earlier prototype and Flyer being true to the later, non-premium NYC prototype. |
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Post by mrmeep on Nov 19, 2023 5:01:08 GMT
Here is a Marx #999 Loco that I got at York for $5 (actually got it and a couple of cars as well with it!). It and the cars were sold as junkers. The loco was seized up and actually had mud inside of the shell! I got it home and took it apart carefully. (Was going to use it for a "project".) Soaked the motor in diesel for 24hrs, then blew it all out with compressed air and soaked it again with WD40 and blew it out again with compressed air. Lubed it up and the motor RUNS! Took the shell off and fixed the bent up handrails and added additional stanchions. Rattle canned the shell after cleaning it and buffing it. Added a whistle, drilled out the smokestack and added a red filter for effect. VOILA! A resurrected toy to run once again on a layout for enjoyment! It runs like a watch! Still a little rough, but it is a TOY and is made to be enjoyed. So there is that. It almost wound up as an "organ donor" for a "project". Oh well, guess I'll have to buy some more "organ donors". That Marx stuff really is simple and sturdy! PS ... The cars turned out to be 8 out of 10 on a 10-scale! They cleaned up and run as good as the day they were made, too!   Click on images to enlarge |
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Post by healey36 on Dec 12, 2023 21:30:41 GMT
Warning signage by various manufacturers:  Left to right, Lionel, Ives, American Flyer, Bing, and Hafner. |
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Post by af3020 on Dec 21, 2023 19:32:59 GMT
A lineup of the usual suspects. - All American Flyer  |
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Post by healey36 on Dec 22, 2023 15:16:39 GMT
Various clockworks:  Top to bottom: Bing, Hornby, Marklin, Hafner. |
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Post by Bill on Dec 22, 2023 16:21:35 GMT
Wow! Those are awesome.
I love the "bing" shot
Thanks for sharing
Bill
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Post by Country Joe on Dec 23, 2023 16:31:18 GMT
Healey, your tinplate collection is fabulous!
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Post by healey36 on Jan 2, 2024 17:51:01 GMT
Healey, your tinplate collection is fabulous! Thanks, but not as fabulous as af3020's...magnifique!
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Post by conrailfan4176 on Jan 4, 2024 20:11:16 GMT
To the OP- yes I collect way more than Lionel tinplate. Prewar American tinplate brands include: Lionel, Ives, American Flyer(Chicago), Gilbert American Flyer, Dorfan, Marx, Joy Line, Hogge and more. I particularly enjoy German tinplate- early on after getting back into the hobby I found a Bing Deutsche-Reichsbahn mail car and have been hooked ever since. European tinplate manufacturers include (German mfg. unless otherwise noted): Bing, Karl Bub, Marklin, Carrette, Issmayer, Fandor, JeP(France), Bassett-Lowke(UK), Hornby(UK and France), Heinrich Fischer and more. A lot of the tooling was shared among the German firms as well as among Bing, Bub & Bassett-Lowke.
Prior to WW1 European manufacturers dominated the toy train industry in Europe and the US. Neat thing about pre-WW2 European tinplate- they made items for foreign markets. Some major German manufacturers made items specific to the UK and US market. Bing produced and Bub produced items in UK market liveries such as wagons marked for the GN. Bing, Bub, Marklin and Fandor made products for the U.S. market such as passenger cars in NYC, PRR, CMSTP and others. They also made freight cars such as a "Pennsylvania Coke" hopper, PRR boxcar, etc... To give you an idea of how responsive these companies were to the U.S. market, once prohibition started they removed or painted over any advertisements for alcohol on their rolling stock.
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Post by healey36 on Jan 11, 2024 14:46:21 GMT
MTH (LC) 2655 RailBox and Lionel (MPC) 9767 RailBox:  I luv RailBox cars...I'd have a hundred of 'em if I had room. |
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Post by af3020 on Feb 7, 2024 14:28:15 GMT
I don't have hundreds of them but at some point I'd like to have one of each serial number of the Marx State of Maine, PRR Merchandise, NYC Pacemaker and the FGEX reefers. At the moment I have all of the FGEX numbers but I'm still working on the rest. There's 16 different car numbers with each series except the PRR which has 17 - there is one additional PRR with no reporting number.  |
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Post by Adam on Feb 7, 2024 16:43:19 GMT
I don't have hundreds of them but at some point I'd like to have one of each serial number of the Marx State of Maine, PRR Merchandise, NYC Pacemaker and the FGEX reefers. At the moment I have all of the FGEX numbers but I'm still working on the rest. There's 16 different car numbers with each series except the PRR which has 17 - there is one additional PRR with no reporting number. Wow, quite a collection!
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