|
Post by chipset35 on Dec 29, 2020 14:18:53 GMT
Based on the recent posts regarding the "state of the hobby", I started thinking of a few things. My biggest fear has always been what if my $700 MTH Premier Engines need to be fixed or need parts? What if the DCS system breaks and I cannot get it fixed or get parts? This was only a minor concern during the good old days for MTH DCS and Lionel Legacy/TMCC; but it seems that ever since 2012, things have been in drastic decline. Brick and mortar and online inventories get smaller and smaller each year. Availability is lower and the window for BTO is getting shorter.
I already feel that all those old Post War Lionel trains I have collecting dust and which seem to last forever were my wisest investment. Although, I have worked on and with PC's for 30 years, I am not sure I can fix modern electronics in MTH or Lionel engines. I am sure the Chinese will counterfeit any parts, but only if there is $$$$ in it for them. And of course, will these parts even be of good quality or worth the money?
However, I can do whatever maintenance or fixing on any post war conventional Lionel Train that is needed. Kind of an insurance policy I guess.
Maybe my doom and gloom is based on the perception of the increasing amount of shrinking minds in today's youth, i.e. its all about social media, smartphones, and movies with cheap gimmicks and special effects with a poor story.
Even worse, are the remakes of some of the movies from the 1970s and 80s, which are not only horrible, but in the name of political correctness, just down right being shoved down ones throat. Basically, I do not see any significant number of young people investing in this hobby from either a business or consumer stand point. Whenever, I go to the RC airplane field or train club events, all you see are guys over 50 and a few 40's. If there are any younger folks they are usually very young children under the age of 8, who will probably not care by the time they are 10.
What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by Adam on Dec 29, 2020 14:48:54 GMT
You make some good points. I too have a few conventional engines, both post war and modern, that I know I can rely on. I often have one or more conventional on the layout, but usually Williams.
But my view on DCS engines is a bit different. Even if MTH goes away completely there will be a good market for repairs and parts that I suspect some smart people would take on, many of which will likely be the current hobby shops that sell MTH. Engines can also be converted to other systems, even just conventional if necessary.
Not ideal and probably not always going to be cost effective, but I believe the market will fill the void in some ways such as these.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 15:09:56 GMT
You've made some good points. Quite a few are what I was thinking but in different words. Even the 40ish crowd seem to be more into HO. A few of the younger crowd are getting into Lego trains but I think this might only be a fad that will dwindle.
If train freighting and travel pickup who knows. Maybe the hobby will perk again.
|
|
|
Post by ptc on Dec 29, 2020 15:16:11 GMT
Vince, I really don't worry about this. It appears that there will be support for you DCS systems on the horizon. Or, these engines can easily be converted to TMCC. The Pre-War/War equipment will be with us, but I much prefer the Modern Era stuff. Rest easy, the sun will come up in the morning again (if it is not cloudy).
|
|
|
Post by Country Joe on Dec 29, 2020 15:22:55 GMT
Vince, I am pretty sure that there are plenty of MTH repair parts for both Premier and Railking locomotives available from shops that are repair stations and this will continue for many years to come. I think the same is true for Lionel but I'm not sure since I'm not a Lionel guy.
I also think that Adam is right in that if the electronics in our modern engines fail they can always be converted to conventional or converted to ERR and TMCC.
My observations from train shows are the same as yours. Most of the O gauge buying is being done by old-timers. The young families are there to see the trains and maybe buy a starter set for a child but most of those children will outgrow trains though a few will become lifelong hobbyists.
Having some good old post-war Lionel locomotives to run is a good idea. There are many reproduction parts available for them so they will be running for many years to come.
|
|
|
Post by Sir James on Dec 29, 2020 16:03:23 GMT
You need to think beyond board replacement. Other parts will be needed too. Of course like some Lionel parts dealers others may take on reproduction parts for MTH. I still like the fact that a conventual engine that's sat on the shelf for years will come to life and go to work. An unnamed friend has a whole heap of MTH that has never been run, each one that is tested now, needs work. Well not all but most. Never used but he's paying now for upgrades. Young people today have many ways to stay entertained other than toy trains. My six grandsons don't even ask to see them run.
|
|
|
Post by chipset35 on Dec 29, 2020 16:11:54 GMT
You need to think beyond board replacement. Other parts will be needed too. Of course like some Lionel parts dealers others may take on reproduction parts for MTH. I still like the fact that a conventual engine that's sat on the shelf for years will come to life and go to work. An unnamed friend has a whole heap of MTH that has never been run, each one that is tested now, needs work. Well not all but most. Never used but he's paying now for upgrades. Young people today have many ways to stay entertained other than toy trains. My six grandsons don't even ask to see them run. Sad that the grandsons are not interested. I guess back in Lionel's golden years, the fact that passenger railroads were all the rage to travel helped. On another note, I wonder just how many hopefuls in their 20s can afford a $350-1000+ model train. That's the nice thing about the smaller gauges, but you need young eyes to see them.
|
|
|
Post by ptc on Dec 29, 2020 16:14:44 GMT
"Sad that the grandsons are not interested.
I guess back in Lionel's golden years, the fact that passenger railroads were all the rage to travel helped.
On another note, I wonder just how many hopefuls in their 20s can afford a $350-1000+ model train.
That's the nice thing about the smaller gauges, but you need young eyes to see them"
Look at some of the prices for the HO stuff. O-gauge is not far off.
|
|
|
Post by quietman on Dec 30, 2020 1:47:55 GMT
There is a compromise. Use ERR boards on old conventional locos, but keep the original e-unit and other parts. Use a postwar transformer with addon TVS diode, circuit breaker and fuse to power your TMCC / Legacy system. You can always go back to conventional with everything if you need to.
|
|
|
Post by firewood on Dec 30, 2020 5:09:18 GMT
When push comes to shove, I think the modern locomotives with can motors can always be modified with aftermarket packages as the OEM electronics gradually expire. Whether it's by cottage industry builders or larger concerns remains to be seen I guess - I'm not a big electronics fan or expert. The older electro-mechanical reverse/wound field motors will probably be around for a long time yet, but might also see some re-manufacturing given sufficient demand. For example, the conversions we see of old American Flyer S gauge to can motors and DCC-type systems may spill over into postwar Lionel, who knows. Maybe RC / battery power will become the next big thing. Just my $0.02 or less - for myself I happily run conventional with cab control, so what do I know... FW
|
|
|
Post by rtraincollector on Dec 30, 2020 6:32:17 GMT
This got me thinking. I'm probably opposite of most, as far as engines go. I started counting engines in sets and then induvial I have, and I came up with 14 +/- a couple with TMCC/PS in them. and stop counting when I go to 60 on conventional engines, Now how many have electronic E-units verse the old mechanical I'm not sure. But a majority of my engines are conventional. Seeing all my tracks have TMCC capability one would thing I would have TPC 300/400 or powermasters connected to the tracks, The fact is I own 1 TPC-400 and two TPC-300 and none of them are connected. I guess I should, but why? if I want to run a conventional I just use the handle on the Postwar ZW. ( I have 2 hooked up at present, and one more that will probably handle my expansion which is basically my yard areas.) I have one being repaired that will probably become my back-up/spare in case I should ever need it.
|
|
|
Post by twincities on Dec 30, 2020 12:07:38 GMT
my thoughts are we seeing a repeat of the toy train market dwindling as it did when american flyer and others and lionel itself shrunk late 1959 forward? if you think about it trains and new manufactures have slowly exited for various reasons so are we experiencing the same trend now? and yet during the lean years we all managed to keep running trains we had and enjoyed them just as we are now. I enjoy running not only the only modern day feature packed trains that at one time were only in our imaginary world but the conventional trains some of us grew up with. in 100 years from now will our once prized feature packed trains be replaced with virtual reality where our trains can have the largest curves available due to no space limitations? will the people of that era think our trains are obsolete we will never know as most all of us will be dust by then.
until my day of departing I'll enjoy what I have and run them until they are no longer able to with the current pc boards etc that made this hobby step up to the next level.
|
|
|
Post by joeh on Dec 31, 2020 3:05:27 GMT
I have 4 small layouts, 2 Christmas and 2 year 'round. They all have postwar Lionel or Flyer running on them. Perhaps I'm re-living my childhood?
|
|
|
Post by trainsintheattic on Jan 1, 2021 18:32:08 GMT
This got me thinking. I'm probably opposite of most, as far as engines go. I started counting engines in sets and then induvial I have, and I came up with 14 +/- a couple with TMCC/PS in them. and stop counting when I go to 60 on conventional engines, Now how many have electronic E-units verse the old mechanical I'm not sure. But a majority of my engines are conventional. Seeing all my tracks have TMCC capability one would thing I would have TPC 300/400 or powermasters connected to the tracks, The fact is I own 1 TPC-400 and two TPC-300 and none of them are connected. I guess I should, but why? if I want to run a conventional I just use the handle on the Postwar ZW. ( I have 2 hooked up at present, and one more that will probably handle my expansion which is basically my yard areas.) I have one being repaired that will probably become my back-up/spare in case I should ever need it. One major reason is the finer control over conventional engines that operation under the TPC provides. The digital application of speed steps from the TPC translates into smoother operation than possible with a variable reostat. Of course the freedom of not being tied down to one area of the layout while running is the obvious benifit, especially when switching in the yard and hands on emergencies are required. The smaller the layout, the less likely a TPC will improve the enjoyment of operating conventional engines. Bruce
|
|