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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 19:58:10 GMT
All I can say is, I wonder what the game is? One day. Announce closing yesterday, with nebulous statements of maybe, scenarios...and this the next day.
What was the reason to not wait until today and make it all i one announcement?
I mean, if there is now as stated another company set up, that didn't happen last night. It has been in process.
I don't trust anything he says until I actually see it.
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Post by JDaddy on Jun 9, 2020 20:04:35 GMT
If you do, I sure could use another remote when I host my open house If/when or if/not it's still functional when I do pull it out. I'll be asking for a premium price for it. No longer will a lot of us take a loss on selling our MTH stuff. The price just went up two fold. LOL... so now its worth 5 bucks.
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Post by JDaddy on Jun 9, 2020 20:10:07 GMT
June 9, 2020 - With the scheduled closing of M.T.H. Electric Trains next year, support for the DCS Digital Command System and the Proto-Sound 3.0 onboard locomotive systems will continue through a new independent company headed up by current M.T.H. staff once direct M.T.H. support for the systems concludes on June 1, 2021. The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App. In fact, new and exciting product ideas are currently under development. The DCS System controls any Proto-Sound 2.0 and later equipped locomotives and first debuted 18 years ago. It has been an integral part of the M.T.H. product line family since its inception and its continuation beyond the closing of M.T.H. is an important part of the transition envisioned by retiring M.T.H. president Mike Wolf. As the retirement transition process moves forward, more details about the new company's creation and ongoing development of M.T.H.'s technology packages will be announced. Stay tuned. This is like the never ending story... additional drama in my life with two teenage daughters? seriously?
Why didn't they just announce the NEW INDEPENDENT COMPANY?
Everyone is already panicking on try to find upgrade proto2/3 boards
This has the same tune of gone are the days of the ERR boards...
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Post by Country Joe on Jun 10, 2020 19:32:04 GMT
June 9, 2020 - With the scheduled closing of M.T.H. Electric Trains next year, support for the DCS Digital Command System and the Proto-Sound 3.0 onboard locomotive systems will continue through a new independent company headed up by current M.T.H. staff once direct M.T.H. support for the systems concludes on June 1, 2021. The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App. In fact, new and exciting product ideas are currently under development. The DCS System controls any Proto-Sound 2.0 and later equipped locomotives and first debuted 18 years ago. It has been an integral part of the M.T.H. product line family since its inception and its continuation beyond the closing of M.T.H. is an important part of the transition envisioned by retiring M.T.H. president Mike Wolf. As the retirement transition process moves forward, more details about the new company's creation and ongoing development of M.T.H.'s technology packages will be announced. Stay tuned. This is good news. Thanks for the update, Tim.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 20:38:44 GMT
I'm fairly certain that something will continue on if there is enough of a profit to be had.
Gary.
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Post by Joe Saggese on Jun 10, 2020 21:07:40 GMT
I go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose......................wow
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 0:41:09 GMT
We have a bunch of additional wiring, etc to do in the next 6 months and we have a commitment to DCS. Or thought that we do.
Obviously the commitment to all of us is quite questionable. I can’t think of much else that is more important than the system that we use to control our layouts. We already have about 20 turnouts and 14 track sections that are controlled by relays fed by the MTH controller plus @ 14 locomotives to be concerned about.
We do not intend to spend another penny on MTH products. Our exposure to significant additional time and dollars is too great to have any trust in MTH supposed replacements. That said, we have almost all that we need to complete the second level of track... another TIU and 2-3 AIUs so the primary loss in the near future would be time required to replace DCS.
Recent news includes: Mike held up the new catalog for awhile, first new steamers in from the new factory, new catalog is released, MTH is closing down, building was sold last month, DCS will continue???
This is not how to run a train company.
We are going to take a hard look at Lionel and the additional cost that will be involved in replacing MTH completely. This will include deciding what MTH engines to sell and which ones to upgrade to Lionel.
Thank goodness we have some time to make a good decision but I am not one to believe that employees will stay aboard a sinking ship if someone else offers them a life raft. Loss of personnel and a significant decline in cash flow seem likely. Selling the building appears to support this train of thought. This has the potential to move quickly.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Jun 11, 2020 7:07:36 GMT
I wouldn't be so hasty, Bill! The DCS announcement sounds like better things are coming for the product line. Besides, no one can add Legacy to any train at the moment. There are no upgrade kits for it.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jun 11, 2020 11:50:08 GMT
We do not intend to spend another penny on MTH products. Our exposure to significant additional time and dollars is too great to have any trust in MTH supposed replacements. That said, we have almost all that we need to complete the second level of track... another TIU and 2-3 AIUs so the primary loss in the near future would be time required to replace DCS. Recent news includes: Mike held up the new catalog for awhile, first new steamers in from the new factory, new catalog is released, MTH is closing down, building was sold last month, DCS will continue??? This is not how to run a train company.We are going to take a hard look at Lionel and the additional cost that will be involved in replacing MTH completely. This will include deciding what MTH engines to sell and which ones to upgrade to Lionel. I agree with all you have said but especially the above. I'd like to believe that DCS will be maintained and maybe even enhanced but Wolf's handling of this leaves me cold. It's his company of course but dealers and customers have, to my way of thinking, been slapped in the face after years of support. Making a successful business is a two-way street, sellers and buyers. When Lionel decided to stop supporting ERR, I complained bitterly and directly to them, as did many others, and a solution was found that is not ideal but adequate. I won't waste any breath on remonstrating with MTH. BTW, there are people who will convert DCS to TMCC, but as Brian says there's no upgrade path to Legacy unless you are willing to deal with a real specialist like Bruk Bannister.
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Post by JDaddy on Jun 11, 2020 12:13:46 GMT
I'm not sure at this moment its time to liquidate. As a matter of fact, maybe its time to buy. If MTH is going to blow everything out. I may invest in some key pieces. Buy some additional parts. I just lost a fan smoke motor lost night. Not sure what happened. But it will not come on any more. I think you are going to see this company emerge from the fire. There is too large a foot print of DCS products in everyone's basement to just let it wane. My only fear is someone buys certain portions of it and just sits on the product, trying to drive the price up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 12:26:46 GMT
I was going to re-wheel my MTH Challenger, get rid of the traction tires. Maybe it's time to put that order in.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 14:59:20 GMT
I for one am glad we chose LEGACY. We knocked around the idea of purchasing DCS and integrating the two down the road. Not so much anymore. Scott Mann picked up ERR so maybe someone will grab DCS and run with it as an addition to what they already have that is train related. As a stand alone entity I believe the investment would far outweigh the rewards. Therefore I truly believe DCS will be dead in the water after the supposed one year of support. Maybe in the future a system that combines LEGACY and DCS could be in the offing as I have seen many other proprietary systems used under license in the past and now. One such system being the HUMMINBIRD integrated remote system being licensed to LOWRANCE now so you don't have to spend serious coin on a changing to a complete HUMMINBIRD system. As far as I'm concerned every one has the right to enjoy their retirement as much as the next person. This situation could have been handled much differently. It does seem that things appear to be a little shady to some. Remember, MTH upgraded their DCS system without any backwards compatibility at all . That left a lot of people holding the proverbial "bag"! A lot of dealers and hobbyists lost out big time. That being said our local train dealer did say four years ago MTH was looking for a buyer because Mike Wolf had enough and wanted out. that was a huge factor in our decision to go with Lionel and LEGACY.At this time I will definitely go with my gut feeling as it has treated me very well in the past.
Regards,
Gary.
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Post by anjdevil2 on Jun 11, 2020 15:09:56 GMT
Other than the accessories and rolling stock, not to worried about MTH leaving the market. I have had issues with DCS and the engines, not happy about the lag time to run trains, problems with control boards, leaving PROTO2 in non- support and all that. I was working in a train specific store, so I have had multiple experiences over multiple makes/models/manufacturers....so, I have first hand experience.
I have not had the quality issues in Lionel that some have spoken about, save for my CNJ CamelBack not producing enough smoke and my dealer taking care of it in 30 days time. Everything else I have from Lionel has been fine. Damn near perfect in some cases. But, then again, I'm not buying items over $500.....My last purchase of the First Responders set runs well, pulls great and does what I expect it to. Paint/fit/finish are impeccable.
What may have driven Mike to retire? Maybe no one wants the business. He made his money and he wants to retire. Good for him. The electronic techs seem to have interest in the technology, but if that technology continues to have this absurd interest in continuing DCS, then why bother? TMCC is easy to use and the learning curve is low. Legacy is more of a step up and the learning curve a little steeper but not being licenced.
In my world, Lionel would buy the HO and accessory line. Possibly the rolling stock. IF Atlas O was smart, they or Menards would buy the locomotive molds and licence TMCC. Make it either a mid or low line inventory, Conventional or TMCC. Now, you have competition again. 1 operating system which is what O gauge NEEDS.
Regardless of your opinion, LionChief was and is GENIUS!! Yes, I get it, multiple controllers and all that. BUT hand a remote to a 5 year old and they are off and running and with WiFi? Smart move, Lionel.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 16:47:38 GMT
My only fully cordless remotes are in LS. That company (Australia) spat the dummy what, 8 or nine years ago? I have plenty, stuff runs for ever. Not interested in doing the cordless remote stuff in the basement. I know from hard experience what it's like when a company either goes away or changes the equipment so it's not compatible with older stuff. Sometimes, I don't care. Like my remotes in Large Scale. Or my computer OS. I am typing this on my XP-64 desktop. Still works.
If you don't want to deal with the loss of parts, support, go back to track power with electronic reversers and gut your MTH stuff. Gotta be a market on evilbait for that stuff. Eliminates pinched and punctured wiring, right?
Talked with my local hobby shop (employee, anyway). Still boarded up, thinking about whether they can continue. So many lines in all scales gone or consolidated.
Athearn, MDC, whatever else, under Horizon, and pitch all the old parts supplies (I know....watched it happen). Delton, Aristo, gone....building kits, gone, then back, then limited..paint...Floquil, ScaleCoat, now even Pactra, if I recall.
I still have my Varney H0 stuff. It has already outlived any of the newer stuff. Like comparing my old Flathead Fords to modern stuff. The two I am driving are 70 years old. Older than any import on the road, just about.
My Lionel. Oldest here is 1940, newest it pre-MPC/Fundimensions, except for some NP Rolling Stock, and it's been modified. After the Kughn issues, I quit.
My 3-rail control is All-Trol, been out of production almost 30 years, corded, memory, still works like the day it was built. Classifies as "conventional".
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Post by Sir James on Jun 11, 2020 16:58:10 GMT
This is JUST a thought not speculation. Mike is so willing to sell off the company in pieces, I'm wondering if they were bleeding red ink. A red ink company would be hard to sell intact.
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