oace
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by oace on Mar 30, 2024 10:11:18 GMT
The Ives 1694 was manufactured by Lionel after taking over the Ives brand. According to the Ives Train Society, 2600 sets were manufactured, but very few were sold in the U. S. Most went overseas via Lionel's export department. Lionel's relationship with Ives prior to Ives' collapse was brutal. There was a history of gross misstatements by Lionel regarding the quality of Ives' trains throughout the 1920s, possibly earlier. Ironically, Ives' reversing e-unit was judged superior to that of both Lionel and American Flyer; it is rumored that the e-unit was the primary motivation in Lionel's and American Flyer's takeover of the company. Lionel incorporated Ives' design into their trains as soon as they had their mitts on it. It was not one of Lionel's finest hours. Ives Train SocietyI see - thanks healey36 ! I must confess that yes, I found the E-Unit of Lionel is rather from a questionable reliability, even after cleaning, spring tweaking... The switching occurs randomly, with voltage variations or track travelling trepidations... The direction shifting system developped by Märklin is by far superior, working only by short overvoltage impulse when the locomotive is stopped, to switch the sequence relay. Long ago, I made a little electronic remote circuit which transformed the E-Unit to operate à la Märklin with success. I also designed a circuit to replace the Horn relay, which worked also satisfactorily on a GG-1, but the Lionel horn proved unfortunately unreliable by itself ! I finally sticked to manual direction shift switch, just in order to pair the engines themselves in the suitable direction. OACE.
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Post by healey36 on Mar 30, 2024 15:04:50 GMT
The Ives e-unit is the classic drum design, much better than Lionel's early pendulum design which was prone to failure due to a number of issues. The drum design is not perfect, but certainly far more reliable and fault-free as compared to the pendulum design.
I have a few Ives electric-profile locomotives, and I like them better than the Lionel. The Ives have a cast iron frame, while the Lionel are sheet-metal. There are advantages/disadvantages to both. The additional weight of the cast iron can add to the pulling power, but can be an issue if you drop them (as Lionel pointed out in some of their comparative advertising). The sheet-metal frames of Lionel are a bit sturdier, maybe, but they don't pull many cars in my experience.
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oace
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by oace on Apr 4, 2024 11:35:18 GMT
My latest : Lady Patricia, a Bassett-Lowke 4-6-2 Princess class in black / gold / red LMS livery, side-to-side with : My first : Blink Bonny, an ACE Trains 4-6-2 A3 in green LNER livery, OACE
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Post by healey36 on Apr 4, 2024 14:10:33 GMT
Very nice...likely too big to run on the layout here.
Here's a question - can one run a prewar Marklin electric set using a Lionel AC transformer?
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oace
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by oace on Apr 4, 2024 17:41:30 GMT
Very nice...likely too big to run on the layout here. Here's a question - can one run a prewar Marklin electric set using a Lionel AC transformer? Thanks healey36 ... Yes, Lady Patricia requires 36" radius curves to operate, that is to say 072 circle. About Märklin, As Far As I Remember Correctly - but I am not so sure now, since it was 25 years ago ! * The Märklin runs on AC like Lionel engines, but the system of triggering the reverse direction is different : on a Lionel, it is by temporary lack of voltage, while on the Märklin, it is a brief overvoltage impulse, in a run - stop - impulse - stop - run sequence. There's also no Siren / Horn triggering on Märklin transformers. * I mean : I had issues with the remote direction shift system by Lionel, that proved unreliable and random, while the Märklin overvoltage impulse sequence operated flawlessly. * Note that the center rail of the Märklin track is higher than the left and right rails, so that Lionel won't run on it, becouse of the size of their pickup rollers. Conversely, a Märklin should be able to run on a Lionel / Hornby track (will the 3 rails even), maybe with a slight modification of the contact center spoons / mushrooms / rollers to lower them. * In terms of voltage range, it should be OK. Maybe Lionel would be a bit low in voltage ? But for the usual running conditions, I think it would be fine, nonetheless. But again, more experimented owners and collector could answer you with more certainity than me... OACE
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Post by healey36 on Apr 4, 2024 18:33:56 GMT
Thanks OACE! I've done a bit of reading that also indicated that reversing would be a challenge given Marklin's construction. That would be okay as I'm likely to only run forward, and only very occasionally. My main concern was the possibility of destroying the motor by using a pack with too much voltage. Sounds like that is not a big risk. I have a call in to another collector who has familiarity with prewar Marklin as well...hopefully he will corroborate and I can get this on the track for a bit of test-running.
Thank you!
Paul R.
P. S. That LMS livery of black/gold/red is sharp! A lovely locomotive...I'm a sucker for anything with a Belpaire firebox.
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oace
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by oace on Apr 4, 2024 20:58:21 GMT
Thanks OACE! I've done a bit of reading that also indicated that reversing would be a challenge given Marklin's construction. That would be okay as I'm likely to only run forward, and only very occasionally. My main concern was the possibility of destroying the motor by using a pack with too much voltage. Sounds like that is not a big risk. I have a call in to another collector who has familiarity with prewar Marklin as well...hopefully he will corroborate and I can get this on the track for a bit of test-running. Thank you! Paul R. P. S. That LMS livery of black/gold/red is sharp! A lovely locomotive...I'm a sucker for anything with a Belpaire firebox. You welcome healey36 ! If I can modestly help at my turn... But yes : safely cross-check my informations with your collector friend used to Märklin prewar gear ! Below is the model train power supply that I designed and built in April 2002 (so 22 years ago , but still flawlessly operational today ), with which I powered HORNBY, LIONEL, K-Line, ACE Trains, JEP, BLZ, LR and Märklin locomotives : features : * 0-24V variable AC or DC track supply, using a low voltage VARIAC, up to 5 amps. * Remote Direction shift (INV switch) by overvoltage triggering impulse (à la Märklin). * Remote Horn/Siren (HORN switch) by current and voltage switching (à la LIONEL). * Manual Direction shift, AC/DC, ON/OFF switches. Here is the schematic - sorry, it's in French, but at least, you get the principle of the INV and HORN triggering systems that I successfully developed at the time : If you need some comments to understand, feel free to ask ! OACE
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Post by healey36 on Apr 9, 2024 13:01:24 GMT
That's even more impressive than the trains, OACE, of very nice, professional design and construction.
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oace
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by oace on Apr 9, 2024 17:13:52 GMT
That's even more impressive than the trains, OACE, of very nice, professional design and construction. Thanks healey36 ! Since my custom-design O model train PSU can supply correctly Vintage Lionel locomotives, with their unique Whistle turbine feature, I should (re)buy one for the fun, say a 2046, 2055, 2065 - in premium condition - or which other one ?I had only had a 221 and a 2065 and their matching tender in the past, but which one would you recommend me in that great collection of models with whistle turbine tender ?For a time, I considered the larger 773, but I am confused by the different variants, and moreover it is a rarer, costier model, and of a different construction, so I discarded it, finally. Would you please guide me ? Here in France, Lionel is only known by its name, with rather marginal consideration, like "Ah, yes, it's an american brand". Thanks ! OACE
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Post by healey36 on Apr 9, 2024 17:16:41 GMT
I can only speak to the 2046 Hudson, of which I have one, and it is by far my favorite postwar Lionel locomotive. Please note, this was a project loco that was acquired in poor condition and without a tender. With the help of a couple friends, we were able to completely refurbish the loco to near-original condition. I found an undecorated Williams reproduction 2671W tender to mate with it (I liked the look of the tender's "six-wheel" trucks better than the 2046W that would have been correct). I lettered the Williams tender using decals made to replicate those of Lionel's prewar Hudson. The 2046W tender features four-wheel trucks and the air-chime whistle. Anyway, the 2046 is by far my favorite postwar loco. The 2046 was catalogued in 1950, 1951, and 1953 as an O-27 locomotive; the O version is the 646. They are virtually identical. The 2046 will easily handle 31-inch curves (although it looks better on 42-inch). A perhaps better locomotive, one I don't have, is the 726 or 736 Berkshires. Those are beasts, and most consider them just one step down from the postwar 773 Hudson. They, the Berkshires, are lovely locomotives; a nice one with the correct tender will easily run you double the cost of a very nice 646/2046. Hope this helps.
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oace
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by oace on Apr 10, 2024 20:42:01 GMT
I see healey36 - thanks for your input and insight ! I did not thought about the 726 / 736 model - I'll have a look into it. And yes, like you, I am also considering the more common 2046 since it is the basic representation of the Hudson locomotive... And I am looking for a mint one, AFAP ! OACE
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