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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 22, 2024 20:55:45 GMT
Since I am smitten suddenly with woodside reefers and there colorful paint schemes, it seem inevitable that I would start looking at non operating wood side milk cars and so I have. While a bit more muted, the look is still novel. It seems that Lionel has the market cornered on this type of car.
The inevitable question is what type of steam engine would be appropriate.
I have a Reading & Philadelphia Russian Decapod already which is attractive to me because of the road name. However I am not sure that it is period correct.
There is a 2-6-0 M&H Lionel engine 2331140 which is also attractive since in the Lionel catalog blurb, milk runs are specifically mentioned. The road name is also attractive due to the Mid Atlantic pedigree.
Your thoughts as always are appreciated.
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 22, 2024 21:01:05 GMT
Camelbacks, Atlantics, Light Mikados', Moguls, ten wheelers, twelve wheelers. Lionel and MTH have a bunch. Have fun!
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 22, 2024 21:45:48 GMT
In my fast track education, the glass lined tanks which are featured in the Lionel milk cars were introduced in the 1940s. This was the final design development through the 60s when milk transport by rail was taken over by truck. I would need an engine of that era. I would prefer steam. Rutland and Erie seem to loom large road name wise in the milk train history.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 22, 2024 23:51:33 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions however based upon Ryan Kunkel's comment on this evenings Trainworld live Halloween feed, there is going to be a product dump including all F-19s and everything in the 2024 catalog before the end of the year. I will have to pause the milk train motive power.
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Post by david1 on Oct 23, 2024 3:43:42 GMT
Fyi,
I use a Pennsylvania Mikado to pull my reefers, just a thought.
Dave
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 23, 2024 12:47:30 GMT
Fyi, I use a Pennsylvania Mikado to pull my reefers, just a thought. Dave Thanks Dave, good suggestion. While I know it is far from prototypical I saw an MTH Jersey Central bright green engine for preorder. I did not recall the configuration. But the way my minds works, green-grass-cows-milk it would be a hoot, and certainly grab attention!
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Post by josef on Oct 23, 2024 15:13:22 GMT
Having been involved with shipping Milk from our farm when I was younger. They used for motive power the best engines I remember Milwaukee Rd using at that time a F3 with sometimes as many as a dozen cars for just Milk hauling and a caboose. Normally Milk Cars. These had passenger trucks and cooling. We had to get our Milk by 5AM to the Depot. The cans were weighted and a receipt given. These cans were emptied into the Milk cars and later after school we would pick them up and clean and sterilize them.
I have seen some pictures of steam engines pulling Milk Trains and some were passenger type engines like a 4-4-2.
Because Milk was a perishable and a rush to get it to its destination, they were given priority on the rails.
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Post by trainman9 on Oct 23, 2024 15:27:09 GMT
What is meant by a product dump. Is it like in the old days when Lionel dropped prices drastically to get rid of excess inventory.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 23, 2024 15:34:44 GMT
Having been involved with shipping Milk from our farm when I was younger. They used for motive power the best engines I remember Milwaukee Rd using at that time a F3 with sometimes as many as a dozen cars for just Milk hauling and a caboose. Normally Milk Cars. These had passenger trucks and cooling. We had to get our Milk by 5AM to the Depot. The cans were weighted and a receipt given. These cans were emptied into the Milk cars and later after school we would pick them up and clean and sterilize them. I have seen some pictures of steam engines pulling Milk Trains and some were passenger type engines like a 4-4-2. Because Milk was a perishable and a rush to get it to its destination, they were given priority on the rails. Since I did not have the benefit of your real life experience the insight odf which is informative and interesting, I found on line a Kalmbach publication on the milk trade which I found helpful for background on the train side of the business. The Lionel Milk Cars have the tanks inside the car which dates from the 40s-60s so I would be looking for a steam engine that would be operating in that era and was not too large (layout consideration). As you say the milk was perishable so engines more typical for high speed passenger service were used rather than slower freight engines if I understood the article. It is my prejudice with the wood side of the milk cars that I favor steam, however as you know from experience, diesels were also used. Erie as a road name was an unexpected milk train runner as country farm fresh milk was being heavily promoted to compete with 'urban' milk which was mixed with such things a chalk and watered down. Yuck! Who knew you could learn so much just by simply deciding to do a milk train?!
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 23, 2024 15:38:59 GMT
What is meant by a product dump. Is it like in the old days when Lionel dropped prices drastically to get rid of excess inventory. That does have an unintended negative cognation doesn't it. I considered editing that out but didn't. No I mean a product dump as in so much arriving (being dumped on the consumer) either all at one time or a very short time period. If only it would mean a price drop as well! We can dream can't we?
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Post by josef on Oct 23, 2024 16:44:48 GMT
Having been involved with shipping Milk from our farm when I was younger. They used for motive power the best engines I remember Milwaukee Rd using at that time a F3 with sometimes as many as a dozen cars for just Milk hauling and a caboose. Normally Milk Cars. These had passenger trucks and cooling. We had to get our Milk by 5AM to the Depot. The cans were weighted and a receipt given. These cans were emptied into the Milk cars and later after school we would pick them up and clean and sterilize them. I have seen some pictures of steam engines pulling Milk Trains and some were passenger type engines like a 4-4-2. Because Milk was a perishable and a rush to get it to its destination, they were given priority on the rails. Since I did not have the benefit of your real life experience the insight odf which is informative and interesting, I found on line a Kalmbach publication on the milk trade which I found helpful for background on the train side of the business. The Lionel Milk Cars have the tanks inside the car which dates from the 40s-60s so I would be looking for a steam engine that would be operating in that era and was not too large (layout consideration). As you say the milk was perishable so engines more typical for high speed passenger service were used rather than slower freight engines if I understood the article. It is my prejudice with the wood side of the milk cars that I favor steam, however as you know from experience, diesels were also used. Erie as a road name was an unexpected milk train runner as country farm fresh milk was being heavily promoted to compete with 'urban' milk which was mixed with such things a chalk and watered down. Yuck! Who knew you could learn so much just by simply deciding to do a milk train?! That's the fun part of model railroading. Be whatever maybe of ones interest. A certain train, engine, consist, or era. The fun part comes in doing some research and possible using it or part of for a project.
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Post by af3020 on Oct 23, 2024 17:56:03 GMT
Another option would be an Ontario and Western engine - they ran milk trains to the bigger cities.
I noticed the comment concerning "urban milk." Watering it down and adding chalk was just the beginning.
"Dairymen, especially those serving crowded American cities in the nineteenth century, learned that there were profits to be made by skimming and watering down their product. The standard recipe was a pint of lukewarm water to every quart of milk - after the cream had been skimmed off. To improve the bluish look of the remaining liquid, milk producers learned to add whitening agents such as plaster of paris or chalk. Sometimes they added a dollop of molasses to give the liquid a more golden creamy color. To mimic the expected layer of cream on top, they might also add a final squirt of something yellowish, occasionally pureed calf brains....The most popular preservative for milk - a product prone to rot in an era that lacked effective refrigeration - was formaldehyde, its use adapted from the newest embalming practices...other popular preservatives included salicylic acid, a pharmaceutical compound, and borax, a mineral based material best know as a cleaning product."
From: The Poison Squad by Deborah Blum
If you are in the mood for some real gut wrenching reading this book is an excellent history
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 23, 2024 18:25:43 GMT
'The Jungle' by Upton Sinclair isn't very appetizing either!
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Post by trainman9 on Oct 23, 2024 18:50:06 GMT
Those milk cars were very popular. I had several of the early release but they did not go with what I was doing with my layout at the time.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Oct 23, 2024 19:26:15 GMT
Since I did not have the benefit of your real life experience the insight odf which is informative and interesting, I found on line a Kalmbach publication on the milk trade which I found helpful for background on the train side of the business. The Lionel Milk Cars have the tanks inside the car which dates from the 40s-60s so I would be looking for a steam engine that would be operating in that era and was not too large (layout consideration). As you say the milk was perishable so engines more typical for high speed passenger service were used rather than slower freight engines if I understood the article. It is my prejudice with the wood side of the milk cars that I favor steam, however as you know from experience, diesels were also used. Erie as a road name was an unexpected milk train runner as country farm fresh milk was being heavily promoted to compete with 'urban' milk which was mixed with such things a chalk and watered down. Yuck! Who knew you could learn so much just by simply deciding to do a milk train?! That's the fun part of model railroading. Be whatever maybe of ones interest. A certain train, engine, consist, or era. The fun part comes in doing some research and possible using it or part of for a project. From a quick learning curve, a 4-4-2 Atlantic seems to be a proper size/proportion for a dedicated milk train as you suggested. I just have not found a road name that appeals to me at the moment. A second choice would be a 4-6-2 Pacific although that seems a bit too large to me anyway.
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