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Post by runamuckchuck on Nov 4, 2024 0:11:45 GMT
So what is underneath the peeling sticker; nothing? If not what are these stickers covering up?
If people are willing to take apart a band new $1,300+/- Berkshire to reattach pieces that fall off (different thread), or fuss with $2,300 +/- Triplexes that misbehave (different thread) you have a problem with a sticker on a $30.00 ore car?
To paraphrase Shakespeare, 'Me thinks the hobbyist protests too much'.
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Post by g3750 on Nov 4, 2024 1:02:19 GMT
So what is underneath the peeling sticker; nothing? If not what are these stickers covering up? If people are willing to take apart a band new $1,300+/- Berkshire to reattach pieces that fall off (different thread), or fuss with $2,300 +/- Triplexes that misbehave (different thread) you have a problem with a sticker on a $30.00 ore car? To paraphrase Shakespeare, 'Me thinks the hobbyist protests too much'. Hey Chuck, don't quote me things you don't understand. If you continue to support companies that screw you, I don't what to say to that.
I will see your quote and raise you another (an old poker saying): If you can't identify the sucker at the table, then it's you.
Don't take any wooden nickels, my friend.
George
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Post by lionelllc on Nov 4, 2024 1:06:34 GMT
While that sticker has been seen on one or two road names, it has not been seen on the majority of these cars, at least not yet. That's not true. This road number sticker is common on nearly every piece of RMT rolling stock. If a road name is offered with different road numbers on every car in that road name, then that means the road numbers are stickers/decals. The road number sticker/decal also has a different sheen than the painted car it's attached to. There are only 1 or 2 items made by RMT where every piece in a deco scheme has the SAME road numbers, I'd imagine only those cars have pad printed road numbers ... but that's the exception not the norm. Remember, stickers/decals for RMT road numbers when that deco scheme is advertised as "different road number on every car". Stu
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Post by lionelllc on Nov 4, 2024 1:19:37 GMT
So what is underneath the peeling sticker; nothing? If not what are these stickers covering up? A painted body is underneath the stickers. The stickers aren't cover up anything other than a painted body. Here's a brief, very brief, and overly simplified, outline of how these are made: Paint the body Apply all the graphics (probably by pad printing or other method), OTHER THAN the road number. Remember, at this point, all the cars are identical and have an area where the road number will be applied in the next step. Apply the road number sticker/decal (different for each car) in the area designated for it. The process to apply unique road numbers is very different than the process to apply uniform/common graphics. Stu
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Post by runamuckchuck on Nov 4, 2024 1:22:08 GMT
While that sticker has been seen on one or two road names, it has not been seen on the majority of these cars, at least not yet. That's not true. This road number sticker is common on nearly every piece of RMT rolling stock. If a road name is offered with different road numbers on every car in that road name, then that means the road numbers are stickers/decals. The road number sticker/decal also has a different sheen than the painted car it's attached to. There are only 1 or 2 items made by RMT where every piece in a deco scheme has the SAME road numbers, I'd imagine only those cars have pad printed road numbers ... but that's the exception not the norm. Remember, stickers/decals for RMT road numbers when that deco scheme is advertised as "different road number on every car". Stu I sit corrected and have edited my post which you quoted accordingly. That said I bought a two pack of NH&I ballast cars from Hennings which have different numbers and no stickers. Nor with the exception of one other ore car which reported stickers were any other cars mentioned. As always I defer to your expertise. I am just a pilgrim here.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Nov 4, 2024 1:30:49 GMT
So what is underneath the peeling sticker; nothing? If not what are these stickers covering up? If people are willing to take apart a band new $1,300+/- Berkshire to reattach pieces that fall off (different thread), or fuss with $2,300 +/- Triplexes that misbehave (different thread) you have a problem with a sticker on a $30.00 ore car? To paraphrase Shakespeare, 'Me thinks the hobbyist protests too much'. Hey Chuck, don't quote me things you don't understand. If you continue to support companies that screw you, I don't what to say to that.
I will see your quote and raise you another (an old poker saying): If you can't identify the sucker at the table, then it's you.
Don't take any wooden nickels, my friend.
George
Thanks for your insightful reply.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Nov 4, 2024 3:34:02 GMT
While that sticker has been seen on one or two road names, it has not been reported as being seen on other cars. My NH&I ballast cars have no stickers, but perhaps that is because they are custom runs. ... Charles, as I alluded in an earlier post... depending on the body color, these stickers/decals are more noticeable on some cars and not so on others. The New Hope & Ivyland are one of the best RMT cars I've seen where the road-number decal is VERY well-disguised. But it is there.
To the casual eye, you won't see it (which is great workmanship in its own right -- until the decal begins peeling with age). I almost didn't notice the decal on these cars at all, UNTIL I placed a bright flashlight to the car at a shallow angle... And sure enough... evidence of the decal was there. So black seems to conceal the decals quite well, whereas the Norfolk Southern yellow is one color that is the worst in terms of disguising the roadnumber detail.
In the case of the ore cars, I'm actually more concerned with the binding/drag issue I've encountered on curves. I find that VERY disappointing. Most folks -- and I include myself in this group -- are so enamored with the nice graphics on these cars, they're ecstatic that they're only $30-$35. HOWEVER, as more people begin actually running them, I predict we'll hear more about the binding/drag issue I'm experiencing.
Sorry... but I stand by my, "Houston, we have a problem" comment earlier... at least until I find a way to ease the friction that's occurring with the ore car trucks/wheels.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Nov 4, 2024 12:48:53 GMT
Dave, my original post from which you quoted has been edited to reflect more accurately the facts which Stu was kind enough to provide on painting/stamping versus decals/stickers. I am just a pilgrim here compared to others who know the how's and why's of manufacturing far more than I, and which I readily admit.
Stickers seem a little tacky visually but decals I can live with if properly applied. My cars are SIB but at a slight angle and natural light I could see the little decal square/rectangle subtle and well disguised as it is. That is good workmanship. I suppose it is a bad news bad news situation. Stickers/decals have their drawbacks but otherwise if you want more than a few road numbers on a long consist, you have to do it yourself.
As for the binding issues that is obviously a material issue and unacceptable at any price. But since I am done at only two NH&I ballast cars, it is not a big issue for me. On the other hand should the RMT Woodside reefers be affected in the same manner then I will be more than slightly annoyed.
We are in substantial agreement. The difference is that for your purposes/needs the issue is more critical than it is for me. Otherwise I would be tapping the brakes on any future purchases as well until resolved.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Nov 5, 2024 1:02:04 GMT
Elsewhere, a close up of the truck assembly to my eyes indicates that the axle of one set of wheels is not parallel to the other pair of wheels in the same truck assembly. It is not off by much, but it doesn't take much to create the kind of drag you are experiencing. Flip your ore car over and let us know if you see a similar condition. Attachments:
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Post by rockymountaineer on Nov 5, 2024 1:30:32 GMT
Elsewhere, a close up of the truck assembly to my eyes indicates that the axle of one set of wheels is not parallel to the other pair of wheels in the same truck assembly. It is not off by much, but it doesn't take much to create the kind of drag you are experiencing. Flip your ore car over and let us know if you see a similar condition. There is definitely some "play" where the axles meet the truck sides, causing what you have observed. In addition, depending upon the degree of play, it can also affect how freely the wheels on that axle spin. Worst case scenario... if you hold the car upside down and spin a wheelset, the wheels will stop spinning almost immediately. Other times they'll spin freely and eventually stop spinning.
Either way, I'm not happy about this. I went into this purchase with two goals in mind.
[1] Since the New Hope & Ivyland RR is only 15 minutes down the road from our residence, I thought it would be cool to assemble a unit-train of NH&I ballast cars led by the diesel locomotive that came with Lionel's passenger set a couple of years ago. I've since purchased METCA's NH&I #40 (2-8-0) steamer to head up the passenger train. The RMT ore cars are beautifully decorated. But operationally, they are nightmare -- particularly but not exclusively on less than O-72 curves.
[2] I have a number of the original RMT ore cars that were produced quite a few years ago before RMT started playing games with what turned out to be direct-to-consumer, perpetual "warehouse find" sales that undercut RMT dealer stock. Most of those I kept on the roster were the orange Bethlehem Steel ore cars from various Beth Steel plants. With this latest run of RMT ore cars, one or two additional Beth Steel plants are represented... and I was hoping to add a few of them to go along with my existing ore car fleet. Now... I'm not so sure. We shall see. But whatever I decide, they'll be tested EXTENSIVELY at the local hobby shop BEFORE I bring them home.
As nice as the graphics look on some of the other roadnames, I've signed off any additional RMT purchases for now. I'm curious what others are experiencing. It's my understanding that some folks have purchased box-loads of the RMT ore cars. And I'd love to hear some feedback from them, once they get them on the rails.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Nov 5, 2024 1:58:34 GMT
Minds great or otherwise think alike, but by the time I made up my mind the Lionel/METCA #40 was sold out. Oh well. Good luck with your situation. The two pack of NH&I will do for my limited purposes. I have no downside to this continuing saga.
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Post by bobthetrainguy on Nov 6, 2024 2:20:11 GMT
I really don't understand why they can't just produce the same thing they did before.
The mid 2010 era ore cars were a great product.
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Post by frankmulligan on Nov 6, 2024 19:59:17 GMT
Hmm, since I buy anything Raritan River Railroad, and I already have the custom set of boxcars that Pat is doing, he mentioned to be on the lookout for ore cars for the RRRR. Not encouraging to hear of the issues.
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