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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 1, 2024 17:56:20 GMT
To cut to the chase, I bought a pair of vintage HO scale slow action Crossing Gate kits, originally from Don Fowler Co. in Los Angeles, and can't seem to get the two-way solenoid to activate either way. Each coil shows a passive resistance of about 1.6 ohms, and both are clearly drawing current when connected to accessory voltage (about 15VAC), but other than a slight hum, there's no movement. The solenoid mechanism easily slides back and forth manually with little or no resistance, but will not "throw" when electrically activated.
I've been unable to find the manufacturer (the address leads to a smallish residence, leading me to think the 'company' was just a home business/hobby which may no longer be active) for help or advice, so I'm open to any advice/guidance in either locating the OEM or its successor, or suggestions about getting the crossing gate to work. There are still plenty of these units for sale on the online auction sites, so either everyone is being duped, or there's either a solution, or something I'm missing. Help!
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 1, 2024 23:31:59 GMT
HO Scale? And they are powered by 15vAC? That is strange. are sure you have enough voltage to throw the solenoid? I would up the voltage to 20-24 AC
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 1, 2024 23:53:28 GMT
HO Scale? And they are powered by 15vAC? That is strange. are sure you have enough voltage to throw the solenoid? I would up the voltage to 20-24 AC Yeah, I know -- it's a special application, given that an HO scale crossing gate appeared to be a better size fit for traffic control on the ends of an O scale bascule bridge I'm putting together for the RFC train garden. And yes, the instructions say the " (a)ctuator works best from 14 to 25 volts A.C." In addition to the DC throttle output to power the rolling stock, IME most HO transformers also provide AC voltage in something like that range for accessories. For my experiments, I am using a small Marx single train transformer throttle output, set close to max -- haven't measured the actual output voltage, but it usually is somewhere in the recommended range.
Since no one has yet offered an obvious solution or suggestion what I might have done wrong, I think I'll dive into the second kit and see if *that* set of coils act any better. And while I'm at it, I'll check the actual output voltage and report back. In the meantime, thanks for the response!
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 2, 2024 0:08:52 GMT
That transformer probably maxes out at 12 to 16 V AC. You're going to need more power captain. Try a Lionel transformer and yes measure the output.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 2, 2024 2:42:40 GMT
I'm not an expert but I know that certain solenoids Lionel has used require a high current in order to actuate (for want of a better word). An example is the missile firing mechanism on the USArmy/Marines motorized unit where mine usually won't fire unless it is sitting right on a terminal track near the transformer (a ZW-L). In addition, there is a version of the ERR MiniCommander (HC or High Current version) that is designed to deliver a temporary "jolt" of high current to older accessories that have such solenoids. I would deduce from this that an increased power supply is needed to make your gates operate. How you get it up to the sort of levels JDaddy mentions is another matter but I don't think most small Lionel or other AC transformers are up to the job.
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 2, 2024 16:02:12 GMT
Well, no joy yet, but some progress, of sorts:
- First, I dug out the actuator from the other kit, and tried it with the small Marx transformer I'd been using. No joy.
- I then measured the output voltage of the power supply, and sure enough, the voltage was a bit low, about 13.5 volts AC, just below the range recommended in the specs. So, I dug out another transformer, this one an old single-set Lionel (which brand IME all seem to run a few volts higher than their Marx equivalents), and sure enough, the output was about 15.5 volts AC, comfortably within the recommended range of 14-25 VAC.
- I then tried both actuators on the higher voltage, and neither seemed much closer to actually moving, though both hummed and, when manually assisted, seemed to be trying to close.
So, no solution yet. When I get a chance, I'll test the other PS I have at hand to see if one has a bit more ooomph, though frankly I'm not too hopeful it will make enough of a difference.
I did do a quick search for "linear activators", and I see some small, cheap ones offered by slow boat (maybe even slower, with the dock strike!) that might provide the approximately half-inch/1 cm. 'throw' needed to drive the slow-motion activation mechanism. Anyone ever used such devices, and can suggest how to drive them to achieve the two-way action I need? Thanks in advance . . .
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 8, 2024 17:41:37 GMT
Update: I'd been stymied on figuring out how to up the voltage, since both my smallish bench transformers topped out at just below or slightly above the minimum voltage specified. Then, it hit me: a sort of reverse phasing, connecting them serially to add the output voltages, rather than in parallel to add their power capacities as I've done in the past, would bump up the available voltage. A couple of minutes fiddling, and I was able to produce 20-25 VAC.
At that voltage, the solenoids were visibly and audibly trying to function, but not very successfully. Taking off the detent spring helped somewhat, but even at the maximum voltage, the solenoid does not briskly 'flip' the detent lever, and the action was, to say the least, sluggish and unreliable, on both sets of solenoids. So, I think my linear activator order will be money well spent, and may give me my best chance to get these inexpensive kits functioning. Practice note: if you are tempted by the low price of these kits as offered on the auction sites, be aware that you are buying into a really hairy project, not a reliable product! Along with the solenoid problems I've been chronicling, I had to drill out the tiny holes in the crossarm support, which were closed in the metal casting but must be opened to route the control thread through to activate the arm. I still don't know what other poorly engineered or crafted issues lie ahead before I can get these crossing guards functioning, so be forewarned! 😟
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 16, 2024 19:20:35 GMT
Well, another set of potholes in my tale of woe (or, more appropriately, "trail of whoa!"):
- The linear activators arrived (making good time for a "slow boat" order!), and physically seemed a good fit for the task. However, when I delved into how to wire them up, some of the details I overlooked earlier came back to bite me. Specifically, these cheap linear actuators (apparently like most similar) use a stepper motor for activation, rather than a simple solenoid or DC motor, and the four electrical contact pads must be driven in specific sequences by saw-tooth DC pulses rather than being directly DC powered. *That* requires a driver board, and some sort of controller (like an Arduino) to send the appropriate commands. As it happens, I do have a spare Arduino and *maybe* a stepper motor driver that would work, but at best that would involve digging out the pieces and freshening up my Arduino coding and assembly skill set (meager at best!) to put together a bunch of bits and pieces which I would have to shoehorn into limited space . . . all just to drive some crossing gates!
- So, back to design purgatory: there *are* some DC-driven actuators available, but they are both relatively expensive (the best I've found so far are 12VDC auto power lock activators, about $10 each) and, I suspect, very abrupt in action and drastic overkill in terms of power. I've also considered salvaging solenoids from vintage model train gear, but aside from the waste of the originals, the cost and abrupt/overpower issues would also likely apply.
So, once again I'm open to any suggestions/recommendations on some form of linear activation I can put together for my salvaged crossing gate mechanisms. I need something like a half inch of "throw", and at most an ounce or two of "pull". Anything cheap/simple in the RC world?
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 17, 2024 1:36:39 GMT
Could you not just use the slow-motion tortoise actuators used for switch machines and call it a day?
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 17, 2024 2:22:01 GMT
Could you not just use the slow-motion tortoise actuators used for switch machines and call it a day? As a matter of fact, someone on another forum had suggested exactly that earlier today, and after I looked into it, I decided that they would be ideal: they will fit in the space available, the 'throw' is nearly perfect, and the price (while higher than I'd prefer) is not too bad. In addition, the activating power can be left on even at the end of motion, significantly simplifying coordination with the traffic control signal LEDs and a possible add-on sound module. I just ordered a bundle of used machines off eBay, and will report the results after I receive and install them. [BTW, in slight defense of my not having thought of it earlier, I model in PW O gauge and have never previously used the Tortoise devices, for switches or otherwise.  ]
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 27, 2024 23:18:33 GMT
Well, I bought a set of used Tortoise switch machines at a decent price, and have so far managed to re-engineer one of them to drive a pair of the kit's traffic control gates, after a lot of fiddling. I just managed to breadboard control of the adjacent traffic lights by using one of the internal switches on the Tortoise, so I'm well on the way to completion of this phase of the bridge project:
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