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Post by trainman9 on Aug 24, 2024 19:35:58 GMT
Without a booth, will Lionel be at York to further promote not just the CAB3 availability but also products in their most current catalogs. I wonder how most Lionel dealers feel about the lack of support at York. Or is York so dead that it is not worth their time.
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Post by JDaddy on Aug 24, 2024 20:38:50 GMT
You bring a slurry of questions oh padawan.  Lionel did not announce their appearance at the October York. As to the question - do they need to be at York to promote their CAB 3 and their new products? Thats really changed now that they have been advertising in social media. The cost is free, where York is very expensive to bring the crew, have a booth, and promote what I believe is more good will. Honestly, I really don't have time to fart around at the Lionel booth and talk about the weather. It's a swap meet, I am going in for the good deals and then I am going home or travel to do some train watching in Jim Thorpe this year. My feel is a lot of the dealers are leaving the show. Train World didn't even show up last April after paying for a spot in the Orange Hall. And that is fine by me. Less dealers, better deals. Last April a lot of the dealers were doing precisely what they shouldn't be doing. And previously the TCA forbid it. The dealers are walking around buying up the good deals and marking it up for their booth just before the show. I saw this a lot last April and it soured me at the show. York was a show that was supposed to be for the collectors who bought and sold amongst themselves. Lionel, MTH, Atlas, and K-line came later and so did all the shady dealers. |
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 24, 2024 22:06:55 GMT
Lionel and the eastern division are having a spat so don’t expect them there anytime soon. The times I did attend the show, I really didn’t visit Lionel or MTH booths. Weaver and AtlasO yes.. but I agree with Jdaddy, it’s a swap meet.
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Post by david1 on Aug 24, 2024 22:40:47 GMT
I talked to a couple of dealers and they don't care if Lionel attends or not. IMO I always liked it when they attended especially in October. But things are changing, its not 1980 anymore. The internet has changed everything.
As far as some dealers buying from other dealers, so what? If the dealer selling it cheaper than others, its on him.IF I missed it, maybe I should have been faster.
I have seen that since the first time I attended York in 1984. Don't bother me.
Dave
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Post by harmonyards on Aug 24, 2024 23:40:47 GMT
Dealers buying from other dealers is an age old practice, …..when my dad was a dealer, he’d wait till the end of a show and pick up boxes on top of boxes of stuff for the next show,……..he knew who was a dealer, and who was there for a one time shot, ……..
As far as Lionel not being at York, that’s their prerogative. If they feel it ain’t worth it, or they’re having a lover’s spat with EDTCA, oh well, all they did at York was show & tell anyways, …..I’ve suggested to those guys they should do the warehouse sale at York, where their audience would be 10X greater, but I might as well been talking to a wall,….
Pat
The Water Level Route
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 25, 2024 0:01:25 GMT
My take on Lionel's attendance at York or anywhere else for that matter in the era of the internet is akin to Dickens meets Shakespeare; Great Expectations meets Much Ado About Nothing.
To have any model train importer at any venue to just grip and grin is a mutual waste of time.
Like JDaddy, I am looking for product not platitudes.
That is not to say it is not nice to say hi and hello if you have a personal relationship with someone. I may be any number of things, but antisocial is not one of them; necessarily.
But substantive discussions; are not likely. It is all about showing the flag and kissing the ring.
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Post by JDaddy on Aug 25, 2024 1:28:22 GMT
I talked to a couple of dealers and they don't care if Lionel attends or not. IMO I always liked it when they attended especially in October. But things are changing, its not 1980 anymore. The internet has changed everything. As far as some dealers buying from other dealers, so what? If the dealer selling it cheaper than others, its on him.IF I missed it, maybe I should have been faster. I have seen that since the first time I attended York in 1984. Don't bother me. Dave Not dealer buying from other dealers... Dealers buying from other collectors in the other halls, then marking it up and selling on their table, on the first day before it opens at noon. This was not allowed BEFORE the meet. And now the rules just changed last April.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Aug 25, 2024 1:55:08 GMT
York will continue to evolve. That's about all my crystal ball says for now. The "trade show" days are history though, and I will miss that element of York. But it is what it is. The only direction I can see York evolving to now is back to its roots as a super swap meet.
For me, the "glory days" were the years when MTH, Lionel and Atlas-O had huge booths with portable scenic'd layouts that showcased the newest trains being marketed. Sadly, this coincided with the EDTCA's Dark Ages mentality that disallowed photography in the Orange Hall. So the only real history of those days lives on in our memories. Had I been the man I am today back then, I would have captured photos of those wonderful layouts anyway... and then asked for forgiveness later. Heck... the EDTCA wouldn't even allow the late Fred Dole, OGR photographer, to photograph those layouts BEFORE THE MEET BEGAN. How POMPOUS and SHORT-SIGHTED was that decision? Absolutely foolish.
Bottom line... it's not just Lionel. MTH and Atlas-O booths now are a mere shadow of what they once were. But their business models have changed as well too. And at the end of the day -- unless the CEO's put attendance at York in the pet-project or labor-of-love category, I don't see things ever going back to the early 2000's. That train has left the station -- no pun intended.
York super-swap meet... here we come.
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Post by david1 on Aug 25, 2024 3:57:38 GMT
Not dealer buying from other dealers... Dealers buying from other collectors in the other halls, then marking it up and selling on their table, on the first day before it opens at noon. This was not allowed BEFORE the meet. And now the rules just changed last April. That's fine also imo. If the collector is willing to sell it at a lower price to a dealer who ups the price on his table why should I complain. Yes I may of missed out but the dealer is going to make a few extra bucks. Seems to be a win for the collector on selling the item and a win for the dealer who may sell it for a higher price. Nothing wrong with that!!! This will be my 80th straight York and I have seen that happen above more times than I can count. No big deal! Dave
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Post by thebigcrabcake on Aug 25, 2024 4:27:50 GMT
I don't miss Lionel at all. Their booth was always a nice looking place to visit for 3 or 4 minutes but I was never impressed with the way the booth was staffed. None of them ever seemed to be trained as "Brand Ambassadors". They would answer basic product questions but they never really engaged visitors to their booth. I don't think their absence has made much of a difference to the average Swap Meet Attendee.
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Post by dlagrua on Aug 25, 2024 8:52:45 GMT
All company decisions consider risk vs reward or putting it more plainly investment vs return. Apparently Lionel and other importers believe that their booth at York provide less benefit than the expense to have it. I must agree with Rockymountaineer that the meet is on its way back to being what it was originally founded for. It may still prove interesting to TCA members but the ED can't escape the reality demographics of those that buy the trains.
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Post by ron045 on Aug 25, 2024 15:17:00 GMT
Not dealer buying from other dealers... Dealers buying from other collectors in the other halls, then marking it up and selling on their table, on the first day before it opens at noon. This was not allowed BEFORE the meet. And now the rules just changed last April. That's fine also imo. If the collector is willing to sell it at a lower price to a dealer who ups the price on his table why should I complain. Yes I may of missed out but the dealer is going to make a few extra bucks. Seems to be a win for the collector on selling the item and a win for the dealer who may sell it for a higher price. Nothing wrong with that!!! This will be my 80th straight York and I have seen that happen above more times than I can count. No big deal! Dave But is it ethical?
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Post by healey36 on Aug 25, 2024 16:39:01 GMT
I probably spent less than five minutes in the Lionel booth in aggregate over the last 10-15 years they bothered to attend. I've zero interest in the tech-heavy new stuff, but I do understand that many are. If I'm at the meet for six hours, five-and-one-half of them will find me in the member halls.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 25, 2024 20:30:12 GMT
I don't miss Lionel at all. Their booth was always a nice looking place to visit for 3 or 4 minutes but I was never impressed with the way the booth was staffed. None of them ever seemed to be trained as "Brand Ambassadors". They would answer basic product questions but they never really engaged visitors to their booth. I don't think their absence has made much of a difference to the average Swap Meet Attendee. York is for vendors as opposed to dealers a trade show period. Having been chained to such a booth for my profession on numerous occasions , I can tell you it is mostly a thankless job. The plastered on smile. Answering the same questions over and over again while pretending it is the first time you heard it. Listening to more gripes than compliments. It is as about far from fun as you can get for working stiffs. For the boss, it may be another matter. Mike of MTH seemed to genuinely enjoy the interaction with customers. Of course he usually brought something to sell which is a whole different dimension. With on line webinars, You Tube videos and the like even the idea of hosting product seminars or workshops is so yesterday. Quite frankly I would rather have the importers stay at work and do their jobs rather than glad handing at some/any train meet.
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Post by madockawando on Aug 25, 2024 21:07:01 GMT
Lionel being at York has everything to do with whether or not it make business sense for them. Right now it make more sense for Lionel to show up at the Amherst show with lots of younger potential customers then a bunch of old grumpy postwar collectors who have no interest in new trains. 😉
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