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Post by rockymountaineer on Jul 26, 2024 17:04:07 GMT
/RANT ON
I've said this before... and it needs to be repeated. Lionel could be swimming in money (more than they already are), if they would simply offer the Vision Line Ethanol Tanker 3-pack that they first offered in 2008. How many times have they offered the Vision reefers and stock cars in recent years? And now they're also offering several roadnames of a Vision Line caboose. But no tankers!!! WTF???
So until they do... THIS is what is happening: I saved an ebay search for 6-27410, the SKU for Lionel's Vision Line tankers. So today, I was just catching up on my emails and noticed an eBay alert that a set of these was available from Trainz in LN condition for $725 (which I never would have paid anyway). The email alert was timestamped 4:43am. When I browsed the listing, it was already SOLD -- at 5:47am. And here I am seeing it for the first time around 12 Noon.
So somebody with more money than brains buys something for $725 that originally carried an MSRP of $270 [and dealers probably sold them at a 15% discount (on average)]... all just over ONE HOUR.
It's the seedier side of our hobby. No doubt about it. I wish it weren't so, but it's been like this for years... hot stuff going for insane prices. Of course, we have nobody to blame but ourselves. Then again, if Lionel would just offer these again, it would cut the eBay shysters off at the knees... which is what many of them need anyway. And as an added bonus, Lionel would sell a TON OF THEM!!!
/RANT OFF
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 26, 2024 17:16:17 GMT
RANT MODE ENABLED:
David, you have a point and I agree with you - I just don't understand why these very fine models have not been produced again as I am sure the sound technology and the other tooling must be in Lionel's control - or could easily be duplicated.
The only other Lionel model that I can think of that produced a similar distortion in the aftermarket was the TMCC E6 Santa Fe A-A set, which reached just extraordinary prices on eBay. (Of course, when they produced E6's again in a Legacy version it was defective in software respects and fortunately I passed on it on costs/risk grounds.)
Are you waiting on a VL Triplex? There's a real leap of faith. I'm hoarding my set of 3 VL tankers forever.
RANT MODE OFF (temporarily).
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Post by josef on Jul 26, 2024 17:21:19 GMT
/RANT ON
I've said this before... and it needs to be repeated. Lionel could be swimming in money (more than they already are), if they would simply offer the Vision Line Ethanol Tanker 3-pack that they first offered in 2008. How many times have they offered the Vision reefers in recent years? And now they're also offering several roadnames of a Vision Line caboose. But no tankers!!! WTF???
So until they do... THIS is what is happening: I saved an ebay search for 6-27410, the SKU for Lionel's Vision Line tankers. So today, I was just catching up on my emails and noticed an eBay alert that a set of these was available from Trainz in LN condition for $725 (which I never would have paid anyway). The email alert was timestamped 4:43am. When I browsed the listing, it was already SOLD -- at 5:47am. And here I am seeing it for the first time around 12 Noon.
So somebody with more money than brains buys something for $725 that originally carried an MSRP of $270 [and dealers probably sold them at a 15% discount (on average)]... all just over ONE HOUR.
It's the seedier side of our hobby. No doubt about it. I wish it weren't so, but it's been like this for years... hot stuff going for insane prices. Of course, we have nobody to blame but ourselves. Then again, if Lionel would just offer these again, it would cut the eBay shysters off at the knees... which is what many of them need anyway. And as an added bonus, Lionel would sell a TON OF THEM!!!
/RANT OFF
Some people want items with no thought about cost. Example, (not train related), last month a military collector who has been bugging me for months to sell him a rare WW2 Paratrooper Carbine. He knew how much I had paid for it 50 years ago. I told him 12,500.00. Without hesitation he said he would take it. I felt bad, but again, I didn't force him to buy it. Secret is, even when he accepted and wrote the check, I knew I would miss it, which I still do.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 26, 2024 17:25:47 GMT
Some people want items with no thought about cost. Example, (not train related), last month a military collector who has been bugging me for months to sell him a rare WW2 Paratrooper Carbine. He knew how much I had paid for it 50 years ago. I told him 12,500.00. Without hesitation he said he would take it. I felt bad, but again, I didn't force him to buy it. Secret is, even when he accepted and wrote the check, I knew I would miss it, which I still do. Yeah, I understand seller's remorse and have avoided it with all but one model (the only one I have ever sold). Still, you passed it on to someone who no doubt appreciates it.
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Post by superwarp1 on Jul 26, 2024 18:42:57 GMT
Speaking of Tanks. Kline, and twice by Lionel now have offered the B&A/NYC tank commuter engine with nothing for it to pull. No intercity passenger cars. WHY? Also the B&A berk, second run, no caboose to go with it. Thankyou Jr Junction and MTH for making a correct caboose for this engine.
Lionel on what gets produced is so confusing
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Post by Traindiesel! on Jul 26, 2024 19:12:31 GMT
They probably stuck the tank cars into the same closet as the Vision Line Hudson. I believe they designate certain models to be forever collectors items never to be made again.
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Post by david1 on Jul 26, 2024 19:49:43 GMT
I know some who buy something just to show it around to his friends and it happens to any hobby or collection. They buy it for not the pleasure of owning it but to tell someone that they have one and you don't. They like to think they are better than everyone else. I kinda stay away from those type of people!!
Dave
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 26, 2024 21:30:30 GMT
I know some who buy something just to show it around to his friends and it happens to any hobby or collection. They buy it for not the pleasure of owning it but to tell someone that they have one and you don't. They like to think they are better than everyone else. I kinda stay away from those type of people!! Dave I've always thought that was mainly a disorder of people who collect 2rail brass train models (or at least the O scale versions) and the models themselves are never run and almost never come out of the box. But I see your point that it might have infected 3rail people and indeed is a disease found in lots of hobbies. It's a pity if Lionel has adopted a business model designed to cater to that and not least because it means that product reliability, durability and quality in general is secondary.
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Post by Craignor on Jul 26, 2024 21:41:59 GMT
What about the Lionel Legacy E8’s. Why no B unit? Leaving money on the table.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Jul 26, 2024 21:47:25 GMT
I know some who buy something just to show it around to his friends and it happens to any hobby or collection. They buy it for not the pleasure of owning it but to tell someone that they have one and you don't. They like to think they are better than everyone else. I kinda stay away from those type of people!! Dave I've always thought that was mainly a disorder of people who collect 2rail brass train models (or at least the O scale versions) and the models themselves are never run and almost never come out of the box. But I see your point that it might have infected 3rail people and indeed is a disease found in lots of hobbies. It's a pity if Lionel has adopted a business model designed to cater to that and not least because it means that product reliability, durability and quality in general is secondary. You may be on to something in your last sentence. The followup question is whether or not it is an intentional business decision or the result of skewed return/repair requests which are lower because the engines are never run let alone get out of a sealed shipper.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 26, 2024 22:25:16 GMT
My money is/would be on an intentional business decision coupled with or caused by inability to deal with foreign assembly/QC issues.
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Post by bobthetrainguy on Jul 31, 2024 3:56:42 GMT
I think there is a lot of truth in this thread.
People are free to do what they want with their money, and Lionel is free to make what they think will sell.
But I think there is an open secret in the industry that Lionel just makes trains to be collected, hoarded even, and not actually run.
The people that do run these high-end items end up discovering the products don't live up to their advertising and waiting on repairs. Those that don't run them are never the wiser because they sit "mint new in box" in the closet. Even if they were wise to the QC issues, they aren't going to tarnish the name of the brand they've invested so much money in collecting.
Then I think there is another group that chases the "rarity factor" that the title of the original post relates to. That group is the saddest of all because they are looking to get rich off of picking the items that will be "rare". Problem is, there is no rhyme or reason to what Lionel decides to make rare by only producing it in small quantities, or never reproducing it.
I think Lionel's business decisions, QC problems, and otherwise are the evidence that this is the case.
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Post by desrailway on Aug 3, 2024 1:13:17 GMT
LOL I have the same alert notice and was shocked at the quick sale.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Aug 3, 2024 23:22:05 GMT
What about the Lionel Legacy E8’s. Why no B unit? Leaving money on the table. They (Lionel) have NEVER made an E8/9 B unit (go figure). I did what a few others have and put an MTH E8 shell on a Lionel E7 Superbass B unit chassis. It's not an exact match with the prototype as you can see but good enough for my purposes.![](https://i.imgur.com/kkSYPJQ.jpg) ![](https://i.imgur.com/dCvTcUZ.jpg)
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Post by ron045 on Aug 4, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
I'm no businessman... But it would seem logical for any of the train company out there to search the secondary market and see what is in high dollar, high demand and then make that item.
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