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Post by jimsandman on Apr 24, 2024 23:39:22 GMT
Before you go changing the E-Unit or converting to DC only you need to test the motor for its current draw. On DC it should be well under a amp, if the motor is bad or going bad it will be pulling lot more current. In the last month I have seen 2 different motors that pulled over 4 amps. This is the motor by itself not even in the engine.
Just to add insult to injury - if this is the early Docksider from Lionel the motors aren't available, and the newer version motor doesn't fit.
Jim
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Post by mrmeep on Apr 25, 2024 1:06:30 GMT
Before you go changing the E-Unit or converting to DC only you need to test the motor for its current draw. On DC it should be well under a amp, if the motor is bad or going bad it will be pulling lot more current. In the last month I have seen 2 different motors that pulled over 4 amps. This is the motor by itself not even in the engine. Just to add insult to injury - if this is the early Docksider from Lionel the motors aren't available, and the newer version motor doesn't fit. You might try finding a brick-and-mortar hobby shop that does remote control cars. They may have can motors that would be good replacements. Remote/radio controlled cars use some decent robust motors of various sizes.
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Post by firewood on Apr 25, 2024 2:09:25 GMT
You can gut them and install a Bridge Rectifier Diode setup in them and run them on either DC or AC conventional just like the original trains that God created. Done quite a few of them for my friends. I couldn’t agree more - I actually don’t miss sound (turned down all the time), or smoke (turned off most of the time) or annoying crew babble (permanently off if possible). However I want the reversing ability, and a rectifier would give me one direction only, right? Dave
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Post by firewood on Apr 25, 2024 2:57:21 GMT
Don't take me wrong as I do have some modern stuff. But this is exactly why I like prewar and postwar trains better. Me and electronics are not one of my specialties. I can say with confidence that my pre-war Std Gauge rabbithole is beckoning me right now, lol. Dave
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Post by dennym57 on Apr 25, 2024 5:44:00 GMT
Thats exactly what I did with some trains. My first train was a DC only, no e0unit of any sort. I added a bridge rectifier and she runs great on AC now. Very simple. Where on the circuit did you add the bridge rectifier?
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Post by david1 on Apr 25, 2024 6:13:51 GMT
This is why I will not buy any electronic engine after 2012. This applys to mostly Lionel. From the late 90's to around 2012 the build quality is really good. After 2012 the quality goes way down and the build quality is worse.
I have TMCC engines from 1996 and after that are still running today without any problems or repairs. The tmcc engines are all 20+ years old and still going on. The one thing you have to do every year is to give them help by cleaning them, some oil and grease. But I know people that have never oiled or greased their locomotives and then blame the mfg. when something goes wrong. A little TLC goes a long way.
The things you have to do most of the time is to replace bulbs when they had bulbs. I have Lionel scale F3 that the number board light just went out, i'll replace it when I get some time. Also when running my TMCC engines I run at 14-15 volts and that includes some sets with 4 motors. It helps the electronics to last longer by not having the track voltage at 19-20 volts. Proof is in the pudding as they say. Btw who says?
When you buy a used engine, know what your buying, give it a good going over to check for issues no matter what the seller told you. Any engine with a pulmore motor, check the grease if old take it out and replace with new good quality grease. If a can motor do the same thing, btw this includes the truck block also. Take the motor apart and clean.
Btw the build quality on MTH locomotives seem to be better but always do what I said above.
Dave
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Post by rtraincollector on Apr 25, 2024 6:38:55 GMT
Don't take me wrong as I do have some modern stuff. But this is exactly why I like prewar and postwar trains better. Me and electronics are not one of my specialties. I can say with confidence that my pre-war Std Gauge rabbithole is beckoning me right now, lol. Dave I know what you mean, I just never know which one. 
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Post by dlagrua on Apr 25, 2024 7:48:37 GMT
On the subject of electronics and remote control, I hold a electronics engineering degree and could probably troubleshoot modern day circuitry but only if the schematics and parts lists were available. Otherwise it might take hours/days to find the problem. Lionel also uses low grade unmarked board parts so what are they? Most techs just replace the entire board (if available) and some of them can cost $150-$200. As a result I decided to embrace simplicity and run 100% conventional. Sound boards (horn/whistle) and aftermarket eUnits are easily found and that is all my layout requires. When visitors come to see the layout all they want is to see the layout run. Don't need much to support that.
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Post by superwarp1 on Apr 25, 2024 11:43:12 GMT
You can replace the fried part if it didn't damage the board but unless you find the root cause of the failure, it could will happen again. Did the transistor blow because it just failed? Did a capacitor give up the magic smoke then taking out the transistor, you have a bad motor? Did a derailment cause a voltage spike that took out your board? One reason I'm such a fan of electronic circuit breakers like the PSXX-AC from Tony's train exchange.
Here's a quick schematic if you just want to wire up a full wave bridge rectifier. You'll only have one direction but it would hold you over until you find a good e unit to go with your can motor. I'd with a rectifier that can handle at least two amps
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Post by trainman9 on Apr 25, 2024 14:16:06 GMT
Very sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately you are not alone with issues like this. I learned a long time ago to provide protection for these delicate electronics by making some provisions.
Now, I have always relied on modern transformers and never used any of the postwar ones to run my layouts although a lot of folks do rely heavily on them. If you choose to use the postwar ZW’s, KW’s or others you need to make sure that you protect the modern day electronics.
First you need to install fast acting circuit breakers on all of the supply sides in addition to installing Transient Voltage Supressors with a rating of not more than 33 volts. The TVS’s will react to a derailment faster and protect the electronics from power surges better than the circuit breakers and that is why both would be recommended.
Many people have never read the tech bulletin from QSI from a number of years ago that showed that a PW ZW could cause a power surge of 80 volts or more in the event of any kind of derailment. By the time power is turned off the damage is done. You can even get a similar power surge just from the roller pickup sparking when going over uneven track work. Lionel boards were designed to withstand a surge of 50 volts while MTH boards could only withstand a surge of 35 volts.
Even if you are using modern transformers like the ZW-L that I use you still need to provide protection against power surges by using the TVS’s even though many modern transformers including the ZW-L provide stellar protection.
Bi-directional TVS’s cost less than $1.00 each from most electronic supply houses like Newark.
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Post by redjimmy1955 on Apr 25, 2024 16:02:30 GMT
Your guys' answers are what makes this Forum so nice to hang out! Solid helpful answers; none of the sarcastic answers nor innuendo of incompetence found at 0aqother forums...
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Post by david1 on Apr 25, 2024 19:08:01 GMT
Btw I have been running A layout from 1995-on with a ZW that has ran TMCC, Legacy, dcs and conventional. Never a problem. The need for TVS'S and the like has been overstated. I use 10 amp fast blow fuses on each power handle, nothing else. I have used command since it hit the market and I have never had a blown board on anything.
I set the ZW at 14-15 volts to lessen the heat. If you think you have to set the voltage to 18-20+ volts you are mistaken. The fastest way to degrade electronics is heat. So turn down the voltage and they will still run fine.
Dave
Btw the ZW was professionally rebuilt 5 years ago along with a more robust Internal fuse.
Also I have a two track main lines and usually run two powered locomotives (4 motors on each train.)
Dave
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Post by firewood on Apr 25, 2024 19:53:06 GMT
Very sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately you are not alone with issues like this. I learned a long time ago to provide protection for these delicate electronics by making some provisions.
Bi-sdirectional TVS’s cost less than $1.00 each from most electronic supply houses like Newark. Thanks much, trainman 👍👍. I previously added TVSs at each block and fused the throttles, but I need to add the fast trip breakers. I’ve never used old school transformers on my layout - I had two each of Lionel CW80s and two MTH Z1000s. This is the first locomotive board I’ve lost, but at the moment I only have two throttles. One CW80 gave up the ghost (an early one) and also one MTH controller I mentioned above. What a PITA - my steam-powered brain thoroughly dislikes problems it can’t put a finger on. Dave
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Post by firewood on Apr 25, 2024 19:55:17 GMT
Here's a quick schematic if you just want to wire up a full wave bridge rectifier. You'll only have one direction but it would hold you over until you find a good e unit to go with your can motor. I'd with a rectifier that can handle at least two amps
Much appreciated, superwarp - thank you!👍👍 Dave
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Post by firewood on Apr 26, 2024 3:45:03 GMT
Before you go changing the E-Unit or converting to DC only you need to test the motor for its current draw. On DC it should be well under a amp, if the motor is bad or going bad it will be pulling lot more current. In the last month I have seen 2 different motors that pulled over 4 amps. This is the motor by itself not even in the engine. Just to add insult to injury - if this is the early Docksider from Lionel the motors aren't available, and the newer version motor doesn't fit. Jim Thanks Jim - I pulled the motor today and gave it a shot of DC. You hit the nail on the head. It ran terribly, surging then cogging and even a wisp of smoke was visible at one point. I guess that’s what cooked the power transistor - trying to push a stubborn motor. I’ll set this little beast aside for now and keep an eye out for replacement innards. Dave
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