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Post by edlloyd on Apr 7, 2024 0:55:07 GMT
I noticed most cars are plastic and you don't see Aluminum cars to much. Why is that? Are the aluminum cars used just on high end sets? What are the advantages and disadvantages of aluminum cars. Were aluminum cars more popular with MTH or Lionel? Tell me what you know about Aluminum cars. I am just guessing aluminum cars are heavier and probably quieter and run better just like the older die-cast stuff. I really like the old die-cast stuff.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 7, 2024 4:32:05 GMT
I don’t think I can answer all your questions but I will have a stab at it because I have researched this in the past as a passenger car fanatic.
I don’t think using aluminum has anything to do with running characteristics or weight but instead other factors. I do remember that when Lionel moved away from aluminum extrusions for passenger car bodies to ABS plastic, it was ostensibly on grounds of cost and because ABS plastic was supposed to make it possible to produce more prototypical car sides (window placements and the like). I think that the history and the explanation is a little more complicated than that.
K-Line produced many aluminum body cars in 15, 18 and 21” lengths. I am really not sure Lionel did any 18 or 21” aluminum cars until it got hold of K-Line’s tooling. But Lionel had done some really nice anodized aluminum 15” cars before then, which I regard as some of their best products and over many years I put together a Santa Fe Super Chief consist out of these:
 
Many people regard the K-Line cars as the epitome of 3rail aluminum body cars and they certainly produced the greatest variety of them. But in fact many of these cars are “generic” in the sense that they don’t have prototypical window placements. Interestingly (at least to me) I don’t think MTH did more than a few aluminum cars but went over to plastic well before Lionel did. Their cars are also generic in the sense that their heavyweight and streamliner cars are based on just a couple of types, especially the streamliners which all model ACF prototypes such as Union Pacific used.
Apart from Lionel recently reverting to aluminum cars for a couple of runs like the Hiawatha cars, only GGD produces quality non-generic sets in extruded aluminum and that is at the higher cost end of the market. So I would conclude that profit-squeezing at Lionel and MTH finally governed what material they used. Their plastic cars really do not hold a candle to GGD’s products like these (Silver Meteor on the left, GM Train of Tomorrow on the right):
 
That said, about 20 years ago both Lionel and K-Line produced aluminum bodied hi-level or “Superliner” cars that I rank as the best they ever did, and for some reason I have never figured out they are slightly different lengths and not the same tooling. These fantasy scheme NYC Superliner cars by Lionel are the only examples I have (our late friend PTC Brian Vaill had the best example of these being the Alaska RR cars):
For passenger cars that in real life had aluminum or stainless steel fluting and other polished metal features or indeed whole car sides, you cannot beat real metal to replicate their looks, as in this Lionel Texas Special car that I am sure was based on K-Line tooling as most of its construction, including the interior assembly, is identical to the earlier K-Line version:
Another approach is plastic plating, which I think is what MTH used on some cars and engines that have reflective finishes. The same approach had been used on HO cars long before that. GGD does not use plating (or "chrome" lacquer finishes), probably on grounds of cost but also plating might obscure some of the finer details of their cars. The difference is not so great that it diminishes the appeal of cars like the Silver Meteor shown above although the prototypes were stainless steel.
So that is what I can tell you based on my own experience. Brass passenger cars are another story but apart from what GGD produce these are mainly for the 2rail market.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Apr 7, 2024 8:26:12 GMT
MTH did make some 18” aluminum passenger cars with silhouette windows prior to 2000.
Williams also made 21” aluminum passenger cars called “Luxury Liners” back in the mid 90’s in six car sets. I have two PRR sets, a New York Central lighting stripe set and a Santa Fe bi-level set. These also have silhouettes in the windows.
Only the importers can say why they switched to plastic cars but it probably could be because of costs and availability of the aluminum. Also it’s been documented on various forums that the manufacturers felt they could produce better details with ABS plastic.
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Post by gpritch on Apr 7, 2024 14:12:53 GMT
Don't forget the K-Line Bombardier Cars. They are top notch and some of the best product. They came in both 21" and 18".
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Post by edlloyd on Apr 7, 2024 14:27:38 GMT
You guys provided me some great info. on this. Thanks. I knew the train experts would come to my rescue. I would like to find a nice set of Aluminum cars in the Santa Fe if they don't break the bank. I have recently been picking up some tinplate sets and my wallet is feeling it. lol.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 7, 2024 16:02:53 GMT
You guys provided me some great info. on this. Thanks. I knew the train experts would come to my rescue. I would like to find a nice set of Aluminum cars in the Santa Fe if they don't break the bank. I have recently been picking up some tinplate sets and my wallet is feeling it. lol.
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Post by healey36 on Apr 7, 2024 16:20:45 GMT
Anyone ever do a bit of polishing on aluminum cars? If so, what'd you use? How about chrome-plating? I've got a pair of Flying Yankees that need a bit of cleaning up and I'm wondering what might be suitable for those as well. I have an extra car (damaged) to try stuff on. There's an old tube of Simichrome in the toolbox I've used on the autos...I'm wondering if that might be suitable.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 7, 2024 16:35:37 GMT
Don't forget the K-Line Bombardier Cars. They are top notch and some of the best product. They came in both 21" and 18".
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 7, 2024 20:46:46 GMT
Anyone ever do a bit of polishing on aluminum cars? If so, what'd you use? How about chrome-plating? I've got a pair of Flying Yankees that need a bit of cleaning up and I'm wondering what might be suitable for those as well. I have an extra car (damaged) to try stuff on. There's an old tube of Simichrome in the toolbox I've used on the autos...I'm wondering if that might be suitable.
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Post by healey36 on Apr 7, 2024 21:04:49 GMT
Thanks for that. The Consoli (Western Coil) Zephyr is anodyzed aluminum and is in fairly good shape. The chrome-plated Lionel Zephyrs are rough. I'm hopeful that a polish will bring them back. Maybe I'll try the Simichrome...I've used that on the Healey's trim and it shines up nice. Nightmare scenario is you use something that cuts right through the plating.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Apr 8, 2024 6:04:13 GMT
Don't forget the K-Line Bombardier Cars. They are top notch and some of the best product. They came in both 21" and 18". I have a couple of the K-Line 21” Bombardier passenger sets and I’m pretty sure they are plastic, not aluminum.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Apr 8, 2024 6:15:18 GMT
I have a couple of the K-Line 21” Bombardier passenger sets and I’m pretty sure they are plastic, not aluminum.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Apr 8, 2024 6:31:19 GMT
I hadn’t looked at mine for a while, so I look up the Caltrain set that I have on the Legacy K-Line website.
The Bombardier Bi-Level Passenger Car is one of the largest commuter rail passenger cars, designed to hold 70% more passengers than a single level car. In service since 1977, there are more than 650 of these distinctive cars in service throughout North America. In addition to standard coach cars, these Bi-Level cars include a cab car for push-pull operation, meaning the train can reverse direction without turning the train around. The provides added efficiency for a commuter operation.
The K-LINE scale version of these versatile cars are available in two lengths: 21” for full scale operation on 72” curves and 18” long shortened versions for operation on 31” curves. These high quality cars feature a sturdy plastic body riding on a metal chassis, opening side doors, separate metal grab rails, fully detailed interiors with passengers, new improved interior StreamLighting on both levels. The non-powered cab car features an operating headlight, operating classification lights and lighted number boards for realistic operation. The cab car also includes additional metal details including a die cast pilot and a die cast horn and bell on the roof. Create a commuter train for one of the many transit operations using these Bombardier cars around North America.Passenger Cars Feature• 1:48 Scale• Sturdy Plastic Contruction• Metal Chassis• Die Cast Trucks• Separate Metal Grab Rails• Opening Side Doors• New and Improved Interior StreamLighting on Both Levels• Fully Detailed Interior w/Passenger Figures• Separate Roof Vents• Separate Steps• Diaphragms• Windows Flush with Car Body• Cars Require Minimum 72” Curves• 21” long
K-Line Caltrain 21” Bombardier Passenger Set
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Post by atsda on Apr 8, 2024 13:26:03 GMT
harborbelt70, what is the make/ model of the cars in your Super Chief? Alfred
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Post by firewood on Apr 10, 2024 22:46:19 GMT
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