oace
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Post by oace on Mar 10, 2024 22:16:44 GMT
Last word from me - bear in mind that (1) Lionel Fastrack remote control switches (and earlier Lionel or MTH traditional tubular track switches) can be powered from the track rather than wiring to an accessory power source - in fact track power is the default setting so that you ordinarily don't need long wires back to the transformer power source, and (b) these switches are not the same design as smaller scale ones so be careful about generalizing from DC turnouts to traditional 3rail O scale, which may actually only complicate matters. I see @harborbelt... This is a clever supply solution offered by those remote control switches by Lionel Fastrack and - as you wrote it : also in earlier Lionel or MTH traditional tubular track switches - but is the switch triggering integrated into the switch by itself ? (you mention : power is the default setting) or you need some additional track accessories to create that triggering ? OACE
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Post by harborbelt70 on Mar 11, 2024 0:39:09 GMT
Last word from me - bear in mind that (1) Lionel Fastrack remote control switches (and earlier Lionel or MTH traditional tubular track switches) can be powered from the track rather than wiring to an accessory power source - in fact track power is the default setting so that you ordinarily don't need long wires back to the transformer power source, and (b) these switches are not the same design as smaller scale ones so be careful about generalizing from DC turnouts to traditional 3rail O scale, which may actually only complicate matters. I see @harborbelt... This is a clever supply solution offered by those remote control switches by Lionel Fastrack and - as you wrote it : also in earlier Lionel or MTH traditional tubular track switches - but is the switch triggering integrated into the switch by itself ? (you mention : power is the default setting) or you need some additional track accessories to create that triggering ? OACE
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oace
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Posts: 241
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Post by oace on Mar 11, 2024 21:05:06 GMT
Very interesting harborbelt70 : So when the trains enters the switch by itself, it automatically shift to the good direction, thanks to an integrated motor + contacts system, which is powered by the track voltage. Would you let me know further about this model of switch ? Brand, reference ? In the meantime, I received from ROSS Custom Switches a reply to my inquiry : Hi Bruno, yes we do have those switches but they have to have the dz1000 switch machines on them so the points stay closed when entering from the single track end
Happy Railroading!Reading this, I assume that those ROSS switches operates as what you described (in bold in the quote above), and thus integrates the motor + contact features, when the dz1000 switch machines are installed on the switch ? OACE
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Post by harborbelt70 on Mar 11, 2024 21:59:01 GMT
I'm no expert on Ross switches, which are beautiful to look at but too rich for my blood/absence of a permanent layout. However, I think what the guy is talking about is that they use a separate switch motor that has a fairly prototypical operation (slow - indeed some are called "tortoise") rather than having a switch with a small built-in motor that literally snaps the track into place - as in all Lionel and MTH remote control 3rail switches. For your purposes I would only look at the latter and not confuse them with HO/smaller scale switches that usually also use a separate motor.
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Post by curtis on Mar 12, 2024 15:21:38 GMT
OKay let me kick in. Here are sites to help see track we are talking about. Atlas is what I use but I did not include it in this post. MTH Realtrax ( without using included switch controller it will switch automatically to make sure points are always correct coming into the wye part of the switch.) Here is link for that switch that comes in different sizes 031,042,054 etc.. mthtrains.com/40-1020MTH Scaletrax (Hard to find as they no longer make it currently. It operates same as RealTrax) mthtrains.com/45-1052
Now let me say this. My boss has MTH Scaletrax and operates exactly as you want. No power to the switch motor BUT IT IS INSTALLED TO HOLD POINTS IN WHATEVER DIRECTION TRAIN MOVES SWITCH TO! He has a loop with a figure eight built in. The train goes thru the switch and if the wrong way the switch simply is pushed to the correct position until it comes the other way and pushes it back in the other direction. Acts like a reverse loop kinda.
Curtis
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oace
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Posts: 241
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Post by oace on Mar 12, 2024 21:20:35 GMT
OKay let me kick in. Here are sites to help see track we are talking about. Atlas is what I use but I did not include it in this post. MTH Realtrax ( without using included switch controller it will switch automatically to make sure points are always correct coming into the wye part of the switch.) Here is link for that switch that comes in different sizes 031,042,054 etc.. mthtrains.com/40-1020MTH Scaletrax (Hard to find as they no longer make it currently. It operates same as RealTrax) mthtrains.com/45-1052
Now let me say this. My boss has MTH Scaletrax and operates exactly as you want. No power to the switch motor BUT IT IS INSTALLED TO HOLD POINTS IN WHATEVER DIRECTION TRAIN MOVES SWITCH TO! He has a loop with a figure eight built in. The train goes thru the switch and if the wrong way the switch simply is pushed to the correct position until it comes the other way and pushes it back in the other direction. Acts like a reverse loop kinda.
Curtis
I see curtis - thanks for your input. I read "Flawless non-derailing function allows trains to keep running regardless of switch position" about the Lionel Fastrack description in the link you provide. The problem is that the tracks I have are from Menards and looks like this :  That is to say classic Tinplate Tracks. So is there adaptors allowing to use a Lionel Fastrack switch (or the MTH ones) with those classic tracks ? OACE
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Post by harborbelt70 on Mar 12, 2024 22:39:20 GMT
"So is there adaptors allowing to use a Lionel Fastrack switch (or the MTH ones) with those classic tracks?"
That looks like traditional O gauge 3rail tubular track. If so, the answer to your question is yes, Lionel makes an adapter between that and Fastrack. It is product 6-12040 and here is an image: I have used this with different pins on the tubular side to mate Fastrack with Gargraves track. I would guess that MTH made a similar product for mating RealTrax to tubular track, and that there is probably an adapter you can use between, for example, tubular track and a Ross switch.
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oace
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Posts: 241
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Post by oace on Mar 12, 2024 22:44:18 GMT
"So is there adaptors allowing to use a Lionel Fastrack switch (or the MTH ones) with those classic tracks?"
That looks like traditional O gauge 3rail tubular track. If so, the answer to your question is yes, Lionel makes an adapter between that and Fastrack. It is product 6-12040 and here is an image:I have used this with different pins on the tubular side to mate Fastrack with Gargraves track. I would guess that MTH made a similar product for mating RealTrax to tubular track, and that there is probably an adapter you can use between, for example, tubular track and a Ross switch. Fine ! - Thanks again, harborbelt70.  You Guys are all truly resourceful...  OACE
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Post by curtis on Mar 13, 2024 20:23:27 GMT
Harbor Belt is correct BOTH MTH and Lionel Make adapters. I also believe there is an adapter for Atlas
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oace
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Posts: 241
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Post by oace on Mar 14, 2024 15:45:59 GMT
Harbor Belt is correct BOTH MTH and Lionel Make adapters. I also believe there is an adapter for Atlas Thanks curtis ! In the meantime, I received a pair of Hornby R810-R811 "talonnable" switches : these "flips" from one direction to the other very easily by the finger, and they stay maintained in the direction pushed by a light dual-position spring. This lets me hope that they will work with the locomotive wheels push, in order to constitute a "pure mechanical" reversal loop, as I expect. I'll make a quick test soon... Another advantage : these switches are available here in France in nice-to-mint condition for a much lower cost, compared to an importation from USA... OACE
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oace
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Post by oace on Mar 30, 2024 23:21:48 GMT
Finally... The REVERSE LOOP Tests !  I could assemble today (indoors) a test track, in order to see if the famous talonnables (heelables ?) HORNBY R810-811 switches would operate as a reverse loop switch, that is to say with points (needles ?) redirected by the force of the wheels...  The answer is yes , and these two locomotives below works fine...   BUT...  What I did not expected is that some of my locomotives would derail while crossing the switch - no matter its direction...  Blink Bonny (my ACE Trains A3 LNER 4-6-2) front truck can't stand the local widening of the track at the entrance to the switch, to accommodate the needle placement :   My IVES by Williams #1694 sees her front truck bumping, binding or escaping the track profiles :   Here are where the issues are located on the switch itself :  Too bad really, because otherwise, these switches operates very fine as reversing loop switches, without any automation, just by wheel pressure, but their structural design is a cause of systematic derailment on some of my engines...  I'll try to investigate more precisely if something could be done to the front trucks of the IVES and Blink Bonny, and if not, I'll return to my 25-year-old motto : "No derailment ? No switches !"  OACE |
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Post by firewood on Apr 2, 2024 1:16:45 GMT
Beautiful locomotives! I like that Caledonian Railway one 👍👍. It’s always interesting in O Gauge where the manufacturers do not have common standards like American HO for example. Sometimes a locomotive will not run well through every switch.
My local club has a Fastrack loop with manual Fastrack switches and two reverse loops. Most locomotives can push through the switches with no trouble, but a Lionel Polar Express 2-8-4 will derail the pilot truck every time. It’s a lot of adjustment and luck.
Dave
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oace
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Posts: 241
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Post by oace on Apr 2, 2024 14:22:22 GMT
Beautiful locomotives! I like that Caledonian Railway one 👍👍. It’s always interesting in O Gauge where the manufacturers do not have common standards like American HO for example. Sometimes a locomotive will not run well through every switch. My local club has a Fastrack loop with manual Fastrack switches and two reverse loops. Most locomotives can push through the switches with no trouble, but a Lionel Polar Express 2-8-4 will derail the pilot truck every time. It’s a lot of adjustment and luck. Dave Thanks firewood ! It seems that gauge of the locomotive on the trucks are too narrow to stay correctly in place when crossing these Hornby switches where, locally, the gauge reaches 34-35mm instead of 32mm, and my faulty locomotives are probably much less : I'll make some measurements to check this ! OACE.
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oace
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Posts: 241
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Post by oace on Apr 2, 2024 16:49:47 GMT
Here are the measurements I took on my switches, tracks and wheels gauges :  We see a 34.5mm maximum gauge (locally on switches) to a 27.2mm minimum gauge (on the IVES #1694 front truck wheels). If we consider a 32mm O gauge (1"1/4 = 31.75mm), the gap goes from +2.5mm to -4.8mm... I think that for stability, the trucks should show a 31mm gauge, not less ! Since the IVES #1694 is the easiest to readjust to 31mm, I'll start with her and make new tests to see if there's an improvement against derailments. OACE |
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Post by Adam on Apr 2, 2024 17:46:06 GMT
Wow! Very scientific approach. I’ve never seen detailed schematics for switch track before.
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