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Post by dctrainguy on Feb 8, 2024 3:01:04 GMT
Hey all, i am in the works of building my layout. i will be in the wiring process soon. In my collection i have conventional engines & some MTH from the early 2000's that just started with the handheld. I just purchased the lionel graffiti set which is lionel chief i believe. I plan on probably purchasing some new MTH or lionel in the future.
I am set up with 2 track loops and a switch siding off 1 of those loops. I also will be having a Ross crossover switcher. I'm using the MTH Z4000 to power my track. My question is to my fellow train enthusiast, is what do i need to accomplish running what i have or what i will get in the future? Also will i be able to run conventional on 1 track and remote on the other without having issues?
Any info will be helpful. Thanks!
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Post by trainman9 on Feb 8, 2024 16:32:56 GMT
Well, right now there is nothing available at this time from either MTH or Lionel. The MTH DCS system is in short supply if available at all. The Lionel systems, Legacy CAB2 an CAB1L complete, have been discontinued. Of course you old could look to the secondary market but the prices are crazy right now.
Lionel is close to releasing their much awaited CAB-3 but the only option for a remote is the CAB1-L remote. I believe MTH is in the process of producing the DCS base but no remote is planned.
When either of the two systems are available you can run conventional and command on separate tracks without any issues.
Some of the new engines can be run using your phone or iPad with the various Bluetooth apps so you would not need anything other than your Z4000 for power.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Feb 9, 2024 0:17:17 GMT
You'll be able to run what you currently have with your current set up. But before you run anything, change the battery or install a BCR in your older MTH locomotives for better performance.
If you're planning on purchasing more MTH DCS or Lionel with Legacy locomotives then I would purchase each command system that will be available one of these centuries. There are ways to operate trains of any manufacturer with either system but you won't be able to access all functions of the opposite manufacturer, just some of them. Neither of the upcoming systems will have a hand held remote, they will be operated through an app on a Wifi capable device. I've heard rumors of MTH creating a hand held remote in the future but it's just talk right now.
Wiring either command control system is pretty easy and by using both systems you'll have full control of all the locomotive features of each. For me command control has raised my enjoyment of model railroading exponentially!
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Post by superwarp1 on Feb 9, 2024 13:07:45 GMT
Legacy #990 can be had but you are going to pay for it. Figure 800 on up  A good TIU (Rev. L version, don't bother with the older versions) is the same story. You have to ask yourself if you like using your phone or would rather run with a remote? The new Legacy Base3 will allow you to use the cab2 or cab1l remotes along with your phone. The new DCS WTIU no such luck wireless, you can plug in the remote via the phone jack. As Traindiesel stated what centuries will the new and improved be released? Lionel is saying summer. MTH is a one man operation on the electronics side and I have little hope we'll see it this year. |
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Post by dctrainguy on Feb 9, 2024 14:00:39 GMT
Thanks for all the good info. I think my best is to stick to what I have now. I will have 2 sidings so maybe I’ll keep covential on 1 siding and newer style on the other. I’ll have kill switches for those sidings so I should be good.
The Lionel set I just purchased came with chief control. Can I use that also with other chief engines? Or is it just programmed just for that specific engine? Would a legacy set that comes with a remote also be able to work with other engines as well?
Sorry for all the remote questions. I’ve been out of the loop for the past 10 years. I’m starting to get back into it. A lot of changes in the last 10 years.
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Post by josef on Feb 9, 2024 14:27:24 GMT
One thing not mentioned. Your one trackage you will be running conventional, you'll be controlling with voltage increase and decreasing to control your speed of your engine with your MTH Z4000.
But the tracks you want to run remote control, like your LionChief, you will need constant voltage to the trackage, 18Volts. Were you will be using the Lionel remote to control speed of your engine. If you have any track connections between the 2, like a switch, you will need to isolate the switch from both loops.
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Post by trainman9 on Feb 10, 2024 15:50:57 GMT
Ok, maybe I can expand a little on my original reply. Here are some of the items you may need. Not all of them are available from dealers but are available on the secondary market but at much higher prices.
CAB1 Remote and base, original TMCC, control all command equipped engines. Some features not available.
CAB1 and SC1/2 PowerMaster. Control all command equipped engines and conventional engines. One SC 1/2 PowerMaster per track.
CAB1 and 300/400 Track Power Controller. Control all command equipped engines all conventional engines and most MTH PS2/3 engines in conventional mode. One TPC required per track.
Legacy 990 CAB2 Remote and Base. Control all command equipped engines. Add any of the track controllers above to control conventional and MTH engines using the TPC’s.
Legacy CAB1-L Remote and Base. Control all command equipped engines. Add the optional above controllers for conventional operation. May need the Legacy PowerMaster.
Lionel ZW-L Transformer. Add any of the command equipment and this transformer has four built in PowerMasters allowing you to address four individual tracks for conventional control. Not sure about controlling MTH PS2/3 engines but should be able to control MTH PS1 engines.
Lionel CAB3. Controls all Lionel command equipped engines. Need to purchase CAB1-L remote if you want a hand held remote.
Lionel Universal LionMaster Controller. According to Lionel catalog can control up to 3 command engines in command mode. May need some additional investigation to confirm this.
Lionel Bluetooth equipped engines control using your iPhone or iPad.
MTH DCS System. Control all MTH PS2/3 engines and by adding a Lionel TMCC command base control of Lionel engines in command. The MTH system also allows control of conventional engines.
I’m sure this is not a complete listing but a start. Please make any corrections.
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Post by curtis on Feb 10, 2024 15:58:40 GMT
If you have the DCS system and use the app and UPGRADE to the top tier ($30) you can run 99% of the Legacy features out there.
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Post by atsda on Feb 12, 2024 21:50:06 GMT
Post by trainman9 on Feb 10, 2024 at 10:50am
Ok, maybe I can expand a little on my original reply. Here are some of the items you may need. Not all of them are available from dealers but are available on the secondary market but at much higher prices.
CAB1 Remote and base, original TMCC, control all command equipped engines. Some features not available.
CAB1 and SC1/2 PowerMaster. Control all command equipped engines and conventional engines. One SC 1/2 PowerMaster per track.
CAB1 and 300/400 Track Power Controller. Control all command equipped engines all conventional engines and most MTH PS2/3 engines in conventional mode. One TPC required per track.
Legacy 990 CAB2 Remote and Base. Control all command equipped engines. Add any of the track controllers above to control conventional and MTH engines using the TPC’s.
Legacy CAB1-L Remote and Base. Control all command equipped engines. Add the optional above controllers for conventional operation. May need the Legacy PowerMaster.
Lionel ZW-L Transformer. Add any of the command equipment and this transformer has four built in PowerMasters allowing you to address four individual tracks for conventional control. Not sure about controlling MTH PS2/3 engines but should be able to control MTH PS1 engines.
Lionel CAB3. Controls all Lionel command equipped engines. Need to purchase CAB1-L remote if you want a hand held remote.
Lionel Universal LionMaster Controller. According to Lionel catalog can control up to 3 command engines in command mode. May need some additional investigation to confirm this.
Lionel Bluetooth equipped engines control using your iPhone or iPad.
MTH DCS System. Control all MTH PS2/3 engines and by adding a Lionel TMCC command base control of Lionel engines in command. The MTH system also allows control of conventional engines.
I’m sure this is not a complete listing but a start. Please make any corrections.
In another thread I hinted that I might be interested in trying some digital equipment. (I operate only post war.)
I am now so thoroughly confused, that I might retract my comment. I don't think that I am a slow learner - it's just that I don't trust the electrons to go where they need to.
Alfred
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Post by superwarp1 on Feb 13, 2024 13:51:14 GMT
Here you go. I'm sure the price has a lot to climb before this auction is over. At least MR. Muffin doesn't have auction fees only shipping.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Feb 15, 2024 1:15:32 GMT
Post by trainman9 on Feb 10, 2024 at 10:50am Ok, maybe I can expand a little on my original reply. Here are some of the items you may need. Not all of them are available from dealers but are available on the secondary market but at much higher prices. ….. In another thread I hinted that I might be interested in trying some digital equipment. (I operate only post war.) I am now so thoroughly confused, that I might retract my comment. I don't think that I am a slow learner - it's just that I don't trust the electrons to go where they need to. Alfred
Both Lionel’s Base3 Legacy system and MTH’s Digital Command System (DCS) are an easy connection between your transformer and track. Start with one of them, learn all the features or just the features you like and you’ll have more fun than ever running your trains. You can add other components to the system as you get comfortable with them.
One of the fun things I did at first was after starting up the train I went upstairs from the basement and sounded the locomotive’s horn from the kitchen! 
Since the systems are waiting for delivery you can check out the information for each and gain some early knowledge to help you decide. Curiously there isn’t much info on the Base 3 on Lionel’s website.
MTH DCS WiFi Track Interface Unit (WTIU)
There are a lot more command control videos on YouTube. Hope this is helpful.
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Post by trainman9 on Feb 18, 2024 16:05:51 GMT
Here you go. I'm sure the price has a lot to climb before this auction is over. At least MR. Muffin doesn't have auction fees only shipping.
What did it finally sell for. Last time I looked it was up to $850.00
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Post by curtis on Feb 18, 2024 23:38:58 GMT
Just Trains of Delaware has the MTH Explorer in stock!
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Post by atsda on Feb 19, 2024 22:50:15 GMT
Post by trainman9 on Feb 10, 2024 at 10:50am Ok, maybe I can expand a little on my original reply. Here are some of the items you may need. Not all of them are available from dealers but are available on the secondary market but at much higher prices. ….. In another thread I hinted that I might be interested in trying some digital equipment. (I operate only post war.) I am now so thoroughly confused, that I might retract my comment. I don't think that I am a slow learner - it's just that I don't trust the electrons to go where they need to. Alfred Alfred, don’t let the list of options confuse you. Some, not all of those components are out of production. Your best bet is to look ahead to the two upgraded systems being released later this year (hopefully). Both Lionel’s Base3 Legacy system and MTH’s Digital Command System (DCS) are an easy connection between your transformer and track. Start with one of them, learn all the features or just the features you like and you’ll have more fun than ever running your trains. You can add other components to the system as you get comfortable with them. One of the fun things I did at first was after starting up the train I went upstairs from the basement and sounded the locomotive’s horn from the kitchen! Since the systems are waiting for delivery you can check out the information for each and gain some early knowledge to help you decide. Curiously there isn’t much info on the Base 3 on Lionel’s website. MTH DCS WiFi Track Interface Unit (WTIU) Photo image of Lionel Trains Connecting Base3 to Your Layout Watch later as Alfred D'Agostino Share Play Watch on YouTube Photo image of Lionel Trains Introducing Lionel's Cab3 & Base3 System Watch later as Alfred D'Agostino Share Play Watch on YouTube Thank you Brian. Two questions: Will a post war transformer like a V or KW provide a stable voltage and be amenable to the needed circuit protection to run new equipment? Can the new control system be used to vary track voltage to run post war equipment? Alfred |
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Post by trainman9 on Feb 20, 2024 15:03:31 GMT
A postwar transformer wether a V or KW can be used as the power source to run modern engines and accessories but you need to make some provisions for protecting the electronics. You will need to install a fast acting circuit breakers and Transient Voltage Suppressors on the supply side.
In order to run in conventional you would need some type of controller, TPC 300/400, Lionel PowerMaster or Legacy PowerMaster to do that.
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A good TIU (Rev. L version, don't bother with the older versions) is the same story. You have to ask yourself if you like using your phone or would rather run with a remote? The new Legacy Base3 will allow you to use the cab2 or cab1l remotes along with your phone. The new DCS WTIU no such luck wireless, you can plug in the remote via the phone jack. As Traindiesel stated what centuries will the new and improved be released? Lionel is saying summer. MTH is a one man operation on the electronics side and I have little hope we'll see it this year. 
