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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 13, 2024 10:25:17 GMT
Believe it or not, I’ve tried hard not to over-indulge my fascination with dining cars.
The dining car side shots below are the starter for this week’s thread. Very broadly they are in increasing order of authenticity compared with prototypes, inside and out, and/or how intricate the details are, starting with this early Lionel aluminum body TMCC StationSounds diner:
This car is from a UP Anniversary set issued about 20 years ago and I intended it to be part of a Lionel UP aluminum passenger car display, which it still is. I’ve been unable to find out if the car name “Elizabeth” in fact represents a real UP car: while I haven’t exhausted every resource, I can’t find a car of that name in any online UP roster. In fact Lionel has made more than one UP diner with this name and I assume that it’s based on some real dining (or other) car.
Next in order is this GGD SP tavern/snack bar car, numbered Daylight car 10314:
This is a world away from the slab-sided Lionel car and I remember ‘way back when this was released people praised the fact that it has the right number of ribs or fluting on the body panels – definitely not something that makes a great difference to me, but I see their point. What does make a difference is that it was on a powered track when the photo was taken, and the result is you can see that the internal lighting in the car is uneven and totally lacking at one end. That results from GGD using too short an overhead LED light bar in this run of SP Daylight cars (probably their first run from more than 15 years ago). Not what you expect from GGD these days, but I live with it for the time being.
Anyway, I really got this car because I wanted to model the interior based on what I found out about this type of car in its Shasta Daylight incarnation as the “Timberline Tavern” depicted in these among other historical sources:
This is a saga in itself but suffice it to say the problem is that the stock interior is crowded with scale-accurate seating and tables, and with long windowless panels on both sides where the bar area was in the prototype, that area couldn’t be seen from the outside even if I built it at a reduced scale. Nonetheless, this car was the original inspiration for the last one depicted in this thread, the MKT Sam Houston diner.
Sticking with GGD for a moment they also produced a couple of articulated kitchen/dining/coffee shop cars including this SP Daylight version:
This is a fine set although it is pictured without the diaphragms I have that were eventually issued to bridge the big gaps between the cars (this being a 3rail version it was made to negotiate O-72 curves). I’ve never done anything with the interiors of these cars although they would benefit from more diners and indeed some kitchen equipment.
That brings me to a couple of examples where I went downtown on dining/seating/kitchen details. This Lionel UP Lone Star Business Car is only a diner as to about half of its compartments, but it is so big inside, where Lionel made a very good effort to replicate the prototype, that there was more than enough space to accommodate all kinds of 3D printed and other furnishings:
Of these my scratch-built serpentine sofa is the most representative of what was in the real UP car and the rest is my own fantasy scheme.
Before I turn to the ultimate fantasy scheme, a slight detour into a foreign model. Years ago, I stayed at a hotel that had some connection with the company that ran the Orient Express. There I stumbled across a fine old wooden display case that contained a single O scale (actually noticeably bigger at 1:43.5) dining car, which I photographed in detail but now cannot find the pictures. However, I tracked down the manufacturer, an Italian company called “Elettren” who made this fine two rail diner that corresponds to what I saw:
 Obviously, the passengers depicted are in a different car (a sleeper) also made by Elettren but you’ll get my drift about including them, even if these examples are pretty tame compared with others I have seen. I think the diner was a very old model because the signature Pullman table lamps had pink silk shades – I know they were silk because some of them had rotted. I would have liked to get my hands on the car and restore them but fat chance of anything like that happening. Anyway, call me old fashioned but on looking at what this company produced I realized that their level of detail was what I was aiming for but allowing for US 3rail novelty.
Following that theme, my ultimate dining car scheme is this fully illuminated and furnished Lionel 21” aluminum MKT Pullman-built Sam Houston diner:
I’ve written about this car on OGF in the past and it’s my biggest modelling effort of recent years. What I’ve never shown before is my snake pit of Pullman table lamps and other lighting wiring underneath the main compartment, which until being sealed up and covered by the car’s original chassis detail looked like this:
These photos were taken X years ago when I completed the lighting and before I crammed in behind the kitchen “My Contraption” which is the command control smoke unit feeding the four kitchen roof exhausts. This feature doesn’t work quite as well as I hoped because although the smoke output is copious when I run it, it tends to lie along the roof of the car, which is messy:
OTOH, the feature that does work as planned is the simulated Pullman charcoal broiler, nicely visible through the kitchen’s main windows:
A bonus side view is this pair of Legacy Texas Special E7s (Lionel’s first run) that was part of the original Lionel Texas Special set including this car and which pulls it:
I’ll stop here as I have another dining car scheme to finish but I don’t expect anyone to hold their breath waiting for it!
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Post by Adam on Jan 13, 2024 12:24:06 GMT
My new-to-me MTH PS1 Doodlebug.   |
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Post by Adam on Jan 13, 2024 12:49:05 GMT
Awesome dining car collection. I can see why you are fascinated with them. The detail you add is amazing to see.
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Post by healey36 on Jan 13, 2024 13:53:14 GMT
Thinking back to my own rail-travel experiences, nothing epitomizes that form of travel more than a visit to the dining and/or club cars. The opportunity for civilized food service moves the experience beyond simply sitting in coach and watching the scenery roll by. Your models look great to me, and harken back to that era. I have an MTH PS2 Doodlebug around here somewhere; I'll have to bust it out. Last I recall, it was having some sort of sound issue, a bit crackily if I remember right. I'll have to see if it still does it. I dug out my box of orphan tenders and found the three or four Marx models therein. In there was what appears to be the correct prewar version for the Commodore Vanderbilt, so for now we'll pair them:  I'll need to find a few Marx passenger cars, but until then, I have a small set of early Flyer cars that might work. We'll see... |
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 13, 2024 14:41:04 GMT
Thinking back to my own rail-travel experiences, nothing epitomizes that form of travel more than a visit to the dining and/or club cars. The opportunity for civilized food service moves the experience beyond simply sitting in coach and watching the scenery roll by. Your models look great to me, and harken back to that era.
For a family home movie I once used as a backing track a song called "Super Chief" - not the Count Basie instrumental version but one by a Texas band called "The Asylum Street Spankers." There's one live recording of this on YouTube but it's badly done and I won't link it; below I replicate the lyrics which are nostalgic/idealistic but I like them:
Verse 1
Roll me up some coffee
Brew me up some tea
I'm going down to San Antone'
Aboard the Super Chief
I'll be ridin' in the diner
I'll be high as I can be
Watchin' Texas roll on by
Far as I can see
Bridge
At the station
Reservation
Destination
Verse 2
Hand me down my hip flask
And pack my brown valise
I'm going down to San Antone'
Aboard the Super Chief
I'll be jivin' with the porters
I'll be smokin' 'tween the cars
As we ride silver rails
'neath the Texas stars
Bridge
In the club car
At the wet bar
Hear thе guitar
Verse 3
We pull into the station
It's such a balmy clime
I likе my tea with coffee
I like my gin with lime
Ridin' on the Super Chief
Makes travelin' mighty fine
Relax and have a high ball
On the San Antonio line
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Post by healey36 on Jan 13, 2024 16:10:31 GMT
Great tune; that's hilarious...I have their Christmas CD. I'll have to look for that tune. My favorite train song is by their fellow Texan, Kinky Friedman, Silver Eagle Express. Rips my heart out every time I hear it: Silver Eagle Express
And I'd ride the Silver Eagle to the last town on the line, Railroad ties are not my friend the only ties that bind. Just watch the troubled countryside gently fall away, Silver Eagle, hold me, guide me, roll me homeward from today. Lose the track of time and let it flow back, Stoke the ancient furnace into flames. Running barefoot in the cinders of the MoPac. Hoppin' bedtime rides with the outlaw Jesse James. But now my heart's a worn and weary vessel. I been haulin' dreams that never seem to last. Once I slept beside a trembling trestle, Woke up lost across the rusty lifelines to the past. And I'd ride the Silver Eagle to the last town on the line, Railroad ties are not my friend the only ties that bind. Just watch the troubled countryside gently fall away, Silver Eagle, hold me, guide me, roll me homeward from today. Freedom's only station to station, A paper suitcase on the track of time. Ain't hard to tell a hard luck situation, Ain't hard to tell a homeless country poet out of rhyme. I'm gonna ride the Silver Eagle to the last town on the line, There's nothing to remember if there's nothing to remind. From the gentle Texas sunshine to the Colorado snow Ain't no one here to hold you, boy, when the good Lord lets you go. Silver Eagle Express |
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 13, 2024 16:47:29 GMT
That is really meaningful, thanks. I still prefer nostalgia - and Florida theme parks, but there’s no accounting for (my) tastes!
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Post by af3020 on Jan 13, 2024 20:26:53 GMT
I'm feeling a little peckish myself so dining cars it is. In the pre-war American era there wasn't much in the way of dining cars but there were some close relatives Ives had a Buffet car  and American Flyer had a number of Club Cars.  Meanwhile, overseas Marklin offered actual dining cars such as this one  which came with complete interior detailing  As for the modern era and very recent manufacture we have the 3rd Rail Rock Island Rocket City of Peoria Joliet articulated baggage dinette car - again with full interior detail.  |
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 13, 2024 20:44:34 GMT
I'm feeling a little peckish myself so dining cars it is . . . Meanwhile, overseas Marklin offered actual dining cars such as this one which came with complete interior detailing
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Post by af3020 on Jan 13, 2024 20:52:51 GMT
The Marklin passenger cars from most of the prewar periods had hinged roofs. What is interesting is the way Marklin marketed the series of cars of which the diner I pictured is one. They sold the basic car - just the car and nothing else. You then could choose to accessorize the car by adding a drop in interior module which would be appropriate for a particular car - diner interior, coach interior, sleeping car interior, etc., purchasing people to sit on the spikes on the seats, and also purchase lighting which would clamp into the bracket you can see on the underside of the roof.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 13, 2024 21:09:05 GMT
The Marklin passenger cars from most of the prewar periods had hinged roofs. What is interesting is the way Marklin marketed the series of cars of which the diner I pictured is one. They sold the basic car - just the car and nothing else. You then could choose to accessorize the car by adding a drop in interior module which would be appropriate for a particular car - diner interior, coach interior, sleeping car interior, etc., purchasing people to sit on the spikes on the seats, and also purchase lighting which would clamp into the bracket you can see on the underside of the roof.
Incidentally, I still have some Marklin trains that I intend to post about another time. They are 3rail AC HO models that are mainly of US prototypes but a couple are Euro-trains or operating cars. I am not a true collector of anything, especially vintage trains, but I run what I like and the (modern) Marklin things I still have are first-rate.
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Post by healey36 on Jan 14, 2024 12:39:49 GMT
The Marklin passenger cars from most of the prewar periods had hinged roofs. What is interesting is the way Marklin marketed the series of cars of which the diner I pictured is one. They sold the basic car - just the car and nothing else. You then could choose to accessorize the car by adding a drop in interior module which would be appropriate for a particular car - diner interior, coach interior, sleeping car interior, etc., purchasing people to sit on the spikes on the seats, and also purchase lighting which would clamp into the bracket you can see on the underside of the roof. That is really interesting; I never realized the cars were made in a modular fashion. Some of the big standard gauge stuff made in this country would have been well-served if made with a similar approach.
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Post by atsda on Jan 16, 2024 1:21:36 GMT
harborbelt70, excellent post - good description, good historical perspedctive, and fine work. Alfred
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 16, 2024 15:33:24 GMT
The Marklin passenger cars from most of the prewar periods had hinged roofs. What is interesting is the way Marklin marketed the series of cars of which the diner I pictured is one. They sold the basic car - just the car and nothing else. You then could choose to accessorize the car by adding a drop in interior module which would be appropriate for a particular car - diner interior, coach interior, sleeping car interior, etc., purchasing people to sit on the spikes on the seats, and also purchase lighting which would clamp into the bracket you can see on the underside of the roof.
I have also come across the below items from an auction site which are sleeping compartment modules and also some of the dining car detail built-in to one particular Elettren diner:  The one on the right really appeals to me whereas the sleepers are just interesting in an odd sort of way.
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