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Post by Adam on Jan 12, 2024 14:44:32 GMT
I think we can close the books on this one. I’ve determined that this engine simply needs to be run at a higher scale MPH for some reason. It’s just not as good a puller as my other engines. Not sure if it was a design flaw or what. But at 25 MPH it stays running at a constant speed, doesn’t get hot and I’m fine with this as being just the way it is.
Why it runs fine for a while and then slows down is still a mystery but I’m notgoing to sweat it for now.
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Post by bobthetrainguy on Jan 13, 2024 1:58:21 GMT
I wonder if there is a bad solder joint on the tach reader.
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Post by cornerfieldrailfan on Jan 16, 2024 22:14:26 GMT
One thing I notice, since we have a lot of PS3 engines at our museum, which we use the Lionel ZW-L transformers power powering the trains, is that I can't get full speed out of the MTH PS3 engines even if I put the handle all the way up to 20 volts, which it's only reading about 18 when at 20.
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Post by Adam on Jan 16, 2024 22:38:03 GMT
One thing I notice, since we have a lot of PS3 engines at our museum, which we use the Lionel ZW-L transformers power powering the trains, is that I can't get full speed out of the MTH PS3 engines even if I put the handle all the way up to 20 volts, which it's only reading about 18 when at 20. Thanks Tom. I'm using the MTH brick with this one, but worth a shot. I've given up on it for now. If I set the scale MPH to 25 it runs at a good steady speed, so I am good with that.
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chuck
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by chuck on Jan 17, 2024 14:57:32 GMT
Few questions...What track voltage are you using and what kind of power? Since that is a AA set try just the lead A unit without the slave equipped trailing A to see if things change. I'm using MTHs DCS system with their largest power brick (don't recall the voltage). I don't think power is an issue as all my other MTH engines run without an issue. you did give me another idea to try There is a connection between the two A units because the non-powered one houses the speaker system. I don't know if the powered unit will run independently but I will give that a shot. Oh okay as I thought it was a powered set. But now the MTH site shows that set as having 2 motors in each A Unit so I was thinking that maybe the trailing A was pulling down the lead unit.
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Post by superwarp1 on Jan 17, 2024 18:55:15 GMT
Sorry if I missed it. Is this a early 5 volt DCS system in your engine??? If so several issues. Bad Capacitor, or going bad capacitor, One of the mosfets are going bad and when they heat up is when you notice the issue. Cold solder joint only notice when the board gets warm. PS3 boards can be fixed. PS2 5 volt boards can't.
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Post by Adam on Jan 17, 2024 18:59:56 GMT
Sorry if I missed it. Is this a early 5 volt DCS system in your engine??? If so several issues. Bad Capacitor, or going bad capacitor, One of the mosfets are going bad and when they heat up is when you notice the issue. Cold solder joint only notice when the board gets warm. PS3 boards can be fixed. PS2 volt boards can't. Thanks for this. This could be my problem.
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Post by jimsandman on Jan 17, 2024 19:50:39 GMT
Adam,
I believe it is probably time to either pop off the shell or send to one of us Authorized repair folks.
Do you have a meter on your layout or a repair bench you can diagnose how much current is being pulled? Running on rollers is a good way to test such failures.
I would certainly be testing the motors using DC (disconnected from the PS3 Diesel board first!!!) and see what kind of current they are pulling.
Since it is a Proto 3 from around 2015 probably a Slave PS3 board in one of the AA Units and the standard Proto 3 diesel board in the other. Later PS3 A-A sets had standard Proto 3 diesel board in each unit. Easy to tell because you have to run in a lash up where early ones just are a single DCS in the remote.
From what you've tried and observed it sounds as if a motor, board or both issue. You got 4 motors in it. A motor issue eventually can cause an expensive board issue if keep running it.
Do you have a service center near you?
Jim
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Post by Adam on Jan 18, 2024 13:37:43 GMT
Thanks Jim! I am not aware of a local service but I can test the capacitors myself and see if any of them are out of spec. I can also check around at the Amherst show to see if there is a local service.
BTW, only one of the two A units is powered, so only 2 motors.
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Post by superwarp1 on Jan 18, 2024 14:24:53 GMT
Thanks Jim! I am not aware of a local service but I can test the capacitors myself and see if any of them are out of spec. I can also check around at the Amherst show to see if there is a local service. BTW, only one of the two A units is powered, so only 2 motors. Lets See since you are going to the Amherst show. I can't think of anyone in my area that can fix MTH PS2 engines. People you might ask at the show. Pioneer Valley hobbies, Dennis no longer has his store but goes to the show to sell left overs, you might want to ask him if he's still in touch with his MTH guy. MTH will be at the show, might want to ask them. Trainworld and Trainz will be there as well. CharlesRo no longer goes to the show but you may want to give them a call. That's all I can think of. I don't have DCS experience so I would be little help.
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Post by josef on Jan 24, 2024 13:39:38 GMT
Adam, I just remembered something. It was about a year ago that I had removed the body from a MTH engine to install a BCR which I was selling. After putting body back on and test running it, it would slow down and needed extra power to get back up to speed and then needed to run at a higher voltage. I knew it hadn't done this before servicing it, so took it apart again and noticed that a wire was next to fly wheel with the tach tape. Moving wire to side and away from tach, shell back on and it ran perfectly. Had same thing happen to a Lionel F3 were the metal that aligned the side marker lights and had a cut out for motor end that had moved sideways and not noticed when I put shell back on. Engine ran great till it hit a curve and would suddenly creep rather then maintain speed, ran backwards great, just not forward. Taken shell off I saw problem and engine when encountering a curve shifted the plate over the end of the motor and caused it by friction to run slower or creep.
Again, these are 2 things I caused a problem by nor double checking, which I now do, actually triple or more before putting screws back in.
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Post by Adam on Jan 24, 2024 14:02:26 GMT
Adam, I just remembered something. It was about a year ago that I had removed the body from a MTH engine to install a BCR which I was selling. After putting body back on and test running it, it would slow down and needed extra power to get back up to speed and then needed to run at a higher voltage. I knew it hadn't done this before servicing it, so took it apart again and noticed that a wire was next to fly wheel with the tach tape. Moving wire to side and away from tach, shell back on and it ran perfectly. Had same thing happen to a Lionel F3 were the metal that aligned the side marker lights and had a cut out for motor end that had moved sideways and not noticed when I put shell back on. Engine ran great till it hit a curve and would suddenly creep rather then maintain speed, ran backwards great, just not forward. Taken shell off I saw problem and engine when encountering a curve shifted the plate over the end of the motor and caused it by friction to run slower or creep. Again, these are 2 things I caused a problem by nor double checking, which I now do, actually triple or more before putting screws back in. Thanks! I’ll check that. |
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Post by Adam on Jan 27, 2024 16:37:19 GMT
Situation Improved!
It’s seems that this engine simply requires more power than other PS3 engines. This is an early PS3 so maybe this was an issue.
I did a few things.
I added another power drop at the halfway point. My layout is only 8x4 as is this loop that I run the larger trains on. No other engine has ever exhibited a need for another drop but figured I’d try it. With that change, the engine alone ran perfectly for 20min at a nice and steady 10MPH (my usual speed)!
However, when I added the cars there was a pronounced slowdown at one of the corners. So, I cleaned the tracks really good and made they were making good contact and voila! The engine pulling cars now can run at a slow and steady speed around the track. I could do this before but only after getting it up to 20MPH. It now runs fine at 13MPH, a bit higher than I usually run, but more than good enough for me.
I’ve tried everything everyone suggested and none of those ideas panned out. It’s possible that there is some issue but it’s elusive. I got this engine for less than $200 so not worth getting it looked at by a pro (in my opinion anyway). THANK YOU for all of the ideas and suggestions.
I’ll update if anything changes.
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Post by BobS2056 on Jan 29, 2024 2:53:53 GMT
Adam
Have performed a amp draw test as the train runs at different speeds to see if a large difference
Just some thoughts
Bob
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Post by Adam on Jan 31, 2024 14:23:35 GMT
I can put this one completely to bed now. Over the weekend I did a thorough cleaning of the tracks and tightened up some of the connections that looked weak. This along with adding the second power drop at the halfway point did the trick.
The engine now can run at a slow and steady speed with the passenger cars behind it with no problems. I can run it at my usual 10 scale MPH (or less) and it runs just fine, no stopping/slowing whatsoever.
Whew, I was worried this was going to be something more complex. I still don't know why this engine is more sensitive to this than others, but I am glad it is running well now.
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