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Post by trainman9 on Jan 5, 2024 14:53:10 GMT
There have been threads concerning their quality control due to issues with several of their engines spanning a number of years beginning it seems with the Mogul. A question was brought up as to wether Lionel Representatives visit the China or any other factory during pre and post production.
During Mike Regans tenure at Lionel he would typically spend at least two weeks in China reviewing production and approving both trim, paint and operation. Sometimes the Chinese would make a change after he left as was evident in the fiasco with production of the Legacy CAB2 system a few years ago.
After the departure of Mike that policy of spending time at the offshore production sites changed to them simply sending samples to North Carolina for approval. That policy was really one of questionable success considering all the complaints about recent production not limited to just engines but also extended to rolling stock and passenger cars.
There was also a question of parts availability. As far as I know there never was a clear policy on parts availability and it simply relied on Lionel taking apart engines and other products to provide a very limited supply. That is why some Service Stations refused to repair products under warranty due to the lack of parts. Maybe that’s why Lionel decided to take warranty service back.
I have not personally had any real issues with any of the new products I’ve purchased however I have not bought any of the really high end products where most of the issues have been in recent times.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 5, 2024 17:24:57 GMT
That's interesting, although even being on site in China for a week or so at a time would not catch every possible design/artwork still less assembly issue. Some of Lionel's best models were made in South Korea, where I'd prefer to see higher end products come from although I have no recent experience of that.
As an aside, I have often wondered why Mike R. exited Lionel when he did, which struck me as being pretty sudden. I have never had the chance to ask him although I can guess why and I think Brian Vaill and maybe some others knew. The quality control has undoubtedly gone downhill since.
Some years back Scott Mann of 3rd Rail/GGD published some accounts of the struggle to maintain QC with Far East manufacturers. I think it basically comes down to using a manufacturer you can trust based on a long-term relationship. If you look at some of the videos about HO manufacturing that Rapido has produced you'll see what I mean.
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Post by david1 on Jan 5, 2024 18:38:59 GMT
QC is not even givin a thought at Lionel. It really pains me to say that!!
Dave
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Post by firewood on Jan 6, 2024 3:54:31 GMT
Years ago I knew a gentleman who did QC for his company in the Shenzhen, China area. He told me he once had to intervene in a screaming match between an employee and a supervisor and looked into why this happened. Apparently the employee was being fired just short of reaching an unpaid three-month internship, and this was a common practice. My acquaintance said he managed to convince plant management that actually training and retaining employees might be in their best interest for contract renewal and effective QC. I know this is just an old anecdote but all these years later I’m curious what actual QC is like. I suspect hobby industries as a whole may be lower on the totem pole. Just my $0.02 or less.
Dave
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Post by Adam on Jan 6, 2024 12:31:55 GMT
I haven't bought much Lionel (at least new) in a long time so I don't have the direct experience with the quality issues and have just been learning from all of you and others out there on the interwebs.
Are the quality issues primarily related to cosmetics (colors, spelling, etc.) or have there also been significant issues with functionality (mechanical, electronics, etc.)? The cosmetic issues seem to get much of the press.
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Post by bobthetrainguy on Jan 6, 2024 13:38:46 GMT
The QC problems run the gamut. One particular nasty one that started with the Legacy K4 and carries on to the most recent PRR L1 is the gearbox. The H10 and I1 are also affected. The gearbox design is similar but they fail in because of different design problems.
There have also been misspellings… “Yeul” and “Missiouri” are the two I’m aware of.
Then there is the paint. Colors are all over the map.
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Post by trainman9 on Jan 6, 2024 14:34:26 GMT
The QC problems run the gamut. One particular nasty one that started with the Legacy K4 and carries on to the most recent PRR L1 is the gearbox. The H10 and I1 are also affected. The gearbox design is similar but they fail in because of different design problems. There have also been misspellings… “Yeul” and “Missiouri” are the two I’m aware of. Then there is the paint. Colors are all over the map. I have two of the Legacy H10’s that could sometime in the future have issues with the gearbox. There is a simple solution and that is to put a shim in the gearbox to prevent the gears from shifting. I have several of the shims but just need to find someone to install them. I don’t want to ship the engines due to the possibility of losing them, York UPS fiasco comes to mind. I also have two extra H10 frames that I had planned to use in case of a failure but the installation of a shim is more practical.
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Post by curtis on Jan 6, 2024 18:44:07 GMT
Years ago I knew a gentleman who did QC for his company in the Shenzhen, China area. He told me he once had to intervene in a screaming match between an employee and a supervisor and looked into why this happened. Apparently the employee was being fired just short of reaching an unpaid three-month internship, and this was a common practice. My acquaintance said he managed to convince plant management that actually training and retaining employees might be in their best interest for contract renewal and effective QC. I know this is just an old anecdote but all these years later I’m curious what actual QC is like. I suspect hobby industries as a whole may be lower on the totem pole. Just my $0.02 or less. Dave Today's QC - Does it kinda resemble a train? Ok Passed!
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