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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 13:41:10 GMT
Dave, I agree with everything you wrote. The customer waits and frets over their BTO trains today. This should not be happening at all . Especially with products that have been manufactured many times before. You are bang on when you speak of Lionel or for that matter any manufacturer that hits a home run and the product is a grand slam. Cheryl and I have been lucky so far with what we have ordered, but roll the dice too many times and you're bound to get snake eyes. When that day arrives we can decline the order if so desired or see if there is a quick fix. This gives us piece of mind at least. What Steve,(Mr. Muffin), and Harry H are offering is a really good fix for this J. The repaint of the stripe and weathering for $73.00 bucks is a good deal for this repair/work. Like you stated, there are also the passenger cars to deal with. We have some other Lionel products that will need some repainting down the road. I also believe that Lionel really does not have much to say about QC any more. I find myself looking more and more at 3RD Rail product lately. Scott Mann practically lives in the Orient to stay abreast of the goings on regarding the manufacture of his product. 3rd Rail is a superior product and priced accordingly. Pretty pricey for me to purchase when you take the CDN. Dollar into account. Maybe if more of us ordered more product from Scott their prices might possibly be reflected by higher manufacturing numbers. Maybe not. I may just be hopeful. A lot of train enthusiasts buy a lot of Lionel product. Sure they have admitted that their Ready To Run stuff is their bread and butter. So maybe they think we will just buy whatever they make anyway. Also I believe Lionel is offering up way to much product annually as well. The dance continues.
Gary.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 13:57:17 GMT
Speaking of the latest VL Challenger we are keeping ours as is. It could have been modified for free but I am not willing to have this locomotive play shipping roulette or possibly experience damage at the Lionel repair centre. Now they offer a kit for $240.00. Who are the fools here. Lionel or the person(s) who send their cash. As I have stated before, we really don't consider this loco to be a true VL product especially when compared to the latest Niagara, the older BIG BOY, or the ATSF 3000. For us it is a Legacy model with a couple of added features and we are good with this.
Gary.
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Post by MichRR714 on Dec 30, 2019 17:53:18 GMT
Obviously Harry knows the correct color to use and has the exceptional skills to correct the debacle. My ongoing question though is how come Lionel does not have staff with the skills necessary to make sure models are painted correctly in the first place. When is Lionel going to make some changes?
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 30, 2019 18:38:06 GMT
... My ongoing question though is how come Lionel does not have staff with the skills necessary to make sure models are painted correctly in the first place. When is Lionel going to make some changes? Charlie, I suspect nothing will change at Lionel as long as sufficient numbers of peeps keep defending Lionel when these issues surface and just keep on pre-ordering like there's no tomorrow. I wouldn't be a bit surprised that folks who look through "Lionel-can-do-no-wrong" eyeglasses will see nothing wrong with this "incorrect" color. There's already a well-known Lionel "defender" taking that very position over on one of the other forums. He’s certainly entitled to his opinion, but I think his blatant bias over the years affords him no credibility among readers. So it is what it is. But it's also another reason why there's such a huge disconnect right now between Lionel and its high-end buyers. These problems -- along with nonsense like Facebook Live videos that feature young product managers goofing off and attempting to present while eating 5-star hot chili chips as if these product issues don't even exist -- are just the tip of the iceberg.  Lionel needs a corporate-culture change. And that often starts at the very top.
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Post by ptc on Dec 30, 2019 20:37:25 GMT
"Lionel needs a corporate-culture change. And that often starts at the very top."
They are way over their heads.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Dec 31, 2019 0:59:13 GMT
"Lionel needs a corporate-culture change. And that often starts at the very top."
They are way over their heads. That is so true, Brian. And that's even an understatement. I hear folks are disappointed with the appearance/finish of Lionel's recent "plated" passenger cars also. MTH seems to have no problem whatsoever doing the plated finish. It is nothing short of superb. However, I returned my Lionel Santa Fe F3 diesels a couple of years ago, because I felt their plated finish was too much of a satin finish with hardly any hint of reflective surface. Apparently the same concerns are being voiced now with the finish on Lionel passenger cars which enthusiasts had hoped would be more like the former stainless steel aluminum finish. Nothing to do but sigh again, I guess. And if you're not happy, just return the product for a refund. On a more positive note, I did stop in at Henning's Trains this afternoon... and they had the new BiPolar State Car passenger set on display. Man o' man.... is that a beauty. It's not as shiny as tinplate, but it certainly has a pleasant satin green finish to it that anybody looking to achieve just the right amount of a "hint" of an O-Gauge pre-war appearance on their layout would be happy to own. Again... this is something I would NEVER pre-order anymore. But having seen it in person, it's now got me thinking... just maybe!!!  I gotta admit though, the BiPolar wouldn't be my "first choice" of a must-have locomotive. And I'd definitely wanna hear the Legacy sound-package on these BiPolars before I pull the trigger. So we shall see.... 
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Post by Traindiesel! on Dec 31, 2019 3:38:42 GMT
........When is Lionel going to make some changes? The Lion cares not for the feelings of sheep.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 2:08:18 GMT
The guy getting the repainted stripe on the 611 is me. 😎 Harry is amazing, we’ve been texting back and forth during this whole process. I’m thinking about sending him some 18” aluminum passenger cars to have weathered to match my new J. The 611 arrives on my layout Friday. I’m anxious to take video and post it. Stay tuned. 👍🏻
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 3:02:30 GMT
I think the owners of Lionel want to maximize profits at all costs and it’s biting them in the leg
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 10:34:59 GMT
As much as I don't think I can live with the stripe color, the decal overlay doesn't really excite me either. It's the nature of the beast but yikes that sticks out like a sore thumb as well.
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Post by ptc on Jan 2, 2020 11:55:04 GMT
NW 1218, welcome to the OGF.
You will be delighted with your new J when you have it on your layout. I have known Harry for many years and he is a master at repainting and weathering engines.
When you get a chance, please post photos of this engine on your layout.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 12:49:50 GMT
We have a couple of things for Harry in April including one of these and a change in the number. No rush as plenty else to do.
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Post by ptc on Jan 2, 2020 13:51:35 GMT
"No rush as plenty else to do."
Yup, you have to get to that second level for sure, Bill.
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Post by fabforrest on Jan 2, 2020 19:16:40 GMT
“I’m thinking about sending him some 18” aluminum passenger cars to have weathered to match my new J.”
wow. I would never weather passenger cars, or engines, for that matter. If you do, I, for one, would be interested to see the result.
the two steamers that Harry has weathered for me look fantastic and I have other candidates, but I am reluctant to put anything more into the shipping channels.
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Post by JDaddy on Jan 2, 2020 19:26:54 GMT
"Lionel needs a corporate-culture change. And that often starts at the very top."
They are way over their heads. That is so true, Brian. And that's even an understatement. I hear folks are disappointed with the appearance/finish of Lionel's recent "plated" passenger cars also. MTH seems to have no problem whatsoever doing the plated finish. It is nothing short of superb. However, I returned my Lionel Santa Fe F3 diesels a couple of years ago, because I felt their plated finish was too much of a satin finish with hardly any hint of reflective surface. Apparently the same concerns are being voiced now with the finish on Lionel passenger cars which enthusiasts had hoped would be more like the former stainless steel aluminum finish. Nothing to do but sigh again, I guess. And if you're not happy, just return the product for a refund. On a more positive note, I did stop in at Henning's Trains this afternoon... and they had the new BiPolar State Car passenger set on display. Man o' man.... is that a beauty. It's not as shiny as tinplate, but it certainly has a pleasant satin green finish to it that anybody looking to achieve just the right amount of a "hint" of an O-Gauge pre-war appearance on their layout would be happy to own. Again... this is something I would NEVER pre-order anymore. But having seen it in person, it's now got me thinking... just maybe!!! I gotta admit though, the BiPolar wouldn't be my "first choice" of a must-have locomotive. And I'd definitely wanna hear the Legacy sound-package on these BiPolars before I pull the trigger. So we shall see.... Dave - I and others can appreciate your eye for the details. And its important for your voice , like others to be heard. My suggestion, if you are at York, go to the LCCA dinner at Smokey Bones. Ryan, sometimes Dave and other Lionel product people are there. Or talk with them at the York booth. They do appreciate your constructive criticism. If it sells more trains... its important.
Paint colors have been a constant frustration internally at MTH and Lionel. Many a times they have been sent back items for repainting. The root cause? no idea, but if they don't here from us, they will not feel its a priority.
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I gotta admit though, the BiPolar wouldn't be my "first choice" of a must-have locomotive. And I'd definitely wanna hear the Legacy sound-package on these BiPolars before I pull the trigger. So we shall see.... 
