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Post by chipset35 on Oct 29, 2022 17:37:26 GMT
Man, I have been buying stuff from them as a result of reads on this forum. Why don't they become a sponsor here?
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Post by ptc on Oct 29, 2022 22:15:34 GMT
They are not friendly to the OGF. All I got from them was a royal run-around. I will not spend one cent with them. I guess they like to pay the big bucks to advertise on the other platform. They could post here for zippo. Some folks don't like free. Takes all kinds.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 29, 2022 23:04:27 GMT
You know, there's no accounting for sponsorship. TW do promotional videos with Lionel and probably exhaust their budget that. So be it; I'd rather have input from actual hobbyists, who know best what I think I need to.
P.S. Over the years I've also bought from TW; my choice depends mainly on who's got what at what price but I take into account overall support of the hobby.
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Post by Joe Saggese on Oct 29, 2022 23:15:01 GMT
I have been buying a lot of Williams from train world. After reading this I will stop and use Mario’s or eBay.
Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by david1 on Oct 30, 2022 0:39:20 GMT
TrainZ is a good spot for Williams, never an issue but if there are they stand behind what they sell.A good fair dealer!!
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Post by dlagrua on Oct 30, 2022 0:55:20 GMT
They are not friendly to the OGF. All I got from them was a royal run-around. I will not spend one cent with them. I guess they like to pay the big bucks to advertise on the other platform. They could post here for zippo. Some folks don't like free. Takes all kinds. A member on the other forum told me that he believes that the "iron hand" that runs that forum tells his advertisers not to be involved elsewhere or else.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Oct 30, 2022 1:52:34 GMT
They are not friendly to the OGF. All I got from them was a royal run-around. I will not spend one cent with them. I guess they like to pay the big bucks to advertise on the other platform. They could post here for zippo. Some folks don't like free. Takes all kinds. A member on the other forum told me that he believes that the "iron hand" that runs that forum tells his advertisers not to be involved elsewhere or else. I believe that is highly unlikely. There are several sponsors on this forum that advertise on other forums also. To be honestly blunt, this forum developed a reputation as being hostile towards some vendors. And it’s been discussed on other forums about it. There are a few vendors that previously posted here that no longer do. And when was the last time any of the current OGF sponsors posted anything here that do on other forums? It’s a shame, really, as I think this forum is a great place and would be a value for sponsors.
As for me, I don’t live in a vacuum. I buy trains from an assortment of shops and vendors that give me the best value and service.
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Post by ptc on Oct 30, 2022 11:35:53 GMT
"To be honestly blunt, this forum developed a reputation as being hostile towards some vendors. And it’s been discussed on other forums about it. There are a few vendors that previously posted here that no longer do. And when was the last time any of the current OGF sponsors posted anything here that do on other forums? It’s a shame, really, as I think this forum is a great place and would be a value for sponsors."
Let's start by saying my conversations with TW started before we went live. Then there is the matter of tasteful free speech here. We get to rate manufacturers/suppliers as thy actually perform. For some, it is very good and we say do. Sometimes it stinks and we also get to also say so. We don't exist for advertisers and don't need TW bucks as others do.
Free tasteful speech and not always having to have a smiley face with heavy moderation is th way we go.
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Post by chipset35 on Oct 30, 2022 14:46:15 GMT
My loyalty is to this forum FIRST, for without this forum we would still be in the other forums with no rights, no free speech, and abused by the publisher and moderators. OGF all the way!!!!
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Post by josef on Oct 30, 2022 15:40:59 GMT
I just wish there was a way to permanently remove my name from the other site so they couldn't use me as a number to show sponsors how many members they have. Wish there was a way to find real active members numbers. I belong to a club which shows over 130,000 members, but only 35,000 that are active.
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Post by ptc on Oct 30, 2022 21:32:28 GMT
"I just wish there was a way to permanently remove my name from the other site so they couldn't use me as a number to show sponsors how many members they have.
Wish there was a way to find real active members numbers.
I belong to a club which shows over 130,000 members, but only 35,000 that are active."
It took three letters to RM with the last one saying another would get involved if my name was not removed. He finally got the message. I would not worry too much about this. Time has a way of fixing this.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 30, 2022 22:52:12 GMT
A member on the other forum told me that he believes that the "iron hand" that runs that forum tells his advertisers not to be involved elsewhere or else. I believe that is highly unlikely. .... You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But I know from talking with several dealers and vendors that the inference is definitely one of exclusivity when coming on board to be a sponsor "over there". They run a tight ship over there, and that's never gonna change. The folks calling the shots there love power and control. And they love reminding everyone about it at every opportunity they can. Sponsors have a bit more leeway than members over there, when it comes to pushing the envelope... because money talks. So a small handful of sponsors with cojones have stated matter-of-factly that they'll advertise wherever they choose. But I suspect most sponsors do succumb to the pressure of what is an unwritten form of exclusivity -- so as not to rock the proverbial boat. It is what it is. And it's part of human nature.
BTW, if objectively speaking the pro's and con's in a product review equates to "developing a bad reputation with manufacturers", then the folks who feel that way can go pound sand. Because I don't give a hoot what they think -- not when we're paying premium dollar for our expensive "toys". THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DEMANDING EXCELLENCE.
As for dealers in general... we all have our reasons for spending dollars where we do. I've often said, "People buy from people they like." It's really that simple.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Oct 31, 2022 1:57:28 GMT
I believe that is highly unlikely. .... You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But I know from talking with several dealers and vendors that the inference is definitely one of exclusivity when coming on board to be a sponsor "over there". They run a tight ship over there, and that's never gonna change. The folks calling the shots there love power and control. And they love reminding everyone about it at every opportunity they can. Sponsors have a bit more leeway than members over there, when it comes to pushing the envelope... because money talks. So a small handful of sponsors with cojones have stated matter-of-factly that they'll advertise wherever they choose. But I suspect most sponsors do succumb to the pressure of what is an unwritten form of exclusivity -- so as not to rock the proverbial boat. It is what it is. And it's part of human nature.
BTW, if objectively speaking the pro's and con's in a product review equates to "developing a bad reputation with manufacturers", then the folks who feel that way can go pound sand. Because I don't give a hoot what they think -- not when we're paying premium dollar for our expensive "toys". THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DEMANDING EXCELLENCE.
As for dealers in general... we all have our reasons for spending dollars where we do. I've often said, "People buy from people they like." It's really that simple.
Well, there’s “demanding excellence” and outright attempting to bury someone’s business. The repercussions of that are vendors, and forum members, staying away. This is a small community and word gets around. Do you really think a large hobby shop like Trainworld are going to have anyone tell them where to advertise? There are smaller shops that advertise in multiple places.
Telling people to go pound sand doesn’t make a forum seem inviting and sounds like the toys being thrown out of the crib in a tantrum. Evidence being the vendors who had posted here no longer participating. Sure, people are always going to agree or disagree on model train products. There are classier ways to do it. You would think that would be the focus.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 31, 2022 4:33:48 GMT
Well, there’s “demanding excellence” and outright attempting to bury someone’s business. ... I'm not here to argue with you, Brian. You obviously see this issue VERY different than I do. I don't recall anyone here on OGF "burying someone's business". We talk trains -- largely in an objective and professional manner with an extremely rare need for wrist-slapping by moderators.
But since you brought up the phrase "burying someone's business"... I vividly recall having several of my posts OUTRIGHT DELETED over on the other forum, when I posted how impressed I was with TW Trainworx -- both their custom-built layouts as well as their line of fabulous bridges and buildings. This all happened just about the time when the other place's forum was transitioning away from "talking everything trains" to a "pay to play" advertising business model with blinking banner ads. So until a vendor's arm is twisted to become a sponsor, members can't talk about that vendor's products and services. Period. And if members happen to mention a non-sponsor entity, threads disrespectfully go poof!!! NOW THAT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF BURYING SOMEONE'S BUSINESS. I won't go into the gory details of what actually happened between the vendor I mentioned and the other place's powers-at-be. But suffice it to say, their products and services couldn't be mentioned until years later when that fine outfit happened to hire a former Lionel director of engineering whose relationship with that forum's moderating team broke the ice. And magically they soon became a sponsor whose products were finally allowed to be discussed and promoted over there. True story.
By design, we don't have any of those shenanigans of insecurity here on OGF. We're free to talk products -- the good and the bad -- objectively and professionally. And no vendor, supplier or manufacturer is required to "pay to play" here. We encourage EVERYONE to talk trains and present their products and services. Why more vendors/suppliers don't actively participate -- essentially without paying a cent -- is a shame. But everything will sort itself out in time. It always does.
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Post by Traindiesel! on Oct 31, 2022 4:48:46 GMT
I’m not arguing with you at all, David, just having a conversation. A few vendors that previously posted here no longer do while they still post on OGR and MTF. I’m not going to revisit the list of vendors and members that have left OGF. I just wonder why that is and why it had to happen the way it did rather than singling out Trainworld. Like you said, it is what it is.
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